Hides (1 Viewer)

Farnboro John said:

I can generally tell if there are some, and I most likely will (whereas if children ask me about wildlife I will be as helpful as possible: they usually ask more sensible questions than adults.)

But my real point is that a hide shouldn't be deliberately ruined for everyone by the operator in order to prevent specific wildlife unfriendliness problems with children identified by that operator, a point that some posters on here are apparently missing. The problem itself should be managed effectively, to the benefit of the wildlife, the other users and the children, who need to learn boundaries and self-discipline, without which none of them will ever make any real contact with nature.


And why not, children are entitled to use the hide as much as anyone else. Some people have very old fashioned views and I certainly don't mind noisy children and I'm 62.
Ian.

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IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:

Farnboro John said:

I can generally tell if there are some, and I most likely will (whereas if children ask me about wildlife I will be as helpful as possible: they usually ask more sensible questions than adults.)

But my real point is that a hide shouldn't be deliberately ruined for everyone by the operator in order to prevent specific wildlife unfriendliness problems with children identified by that operator, a point that some posters on here are apparently missing. The problem itself should be managed effectively, to the benefit of the wildlife, the other users and the children, who need to learn boundaries and self-discipline, without which none of them will ever make any real contact with nature.


And why not, children are entitled to use the hide as much as anyone else. Some people have very old fashioned views and I certainly don't mind noisy children and I'm 62.
Ian.

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There's nothing old-fashioned about putting wildlife first on reserves, and noisy kids don't belong in hides where Bitterns are expected at close-quarters. As for children being as entitled as anyone else, I'm sure nobody wants alcohol swilling football hooligans or druggies or fornicators in hides: stretching tolerance beyond all reason is for Guardian-readers. Properly brought up children are welcome anywhere I am.

John

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Farnboro John said:

IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:

There's nothing old-fashioned about putting wildlife first on reserves, and noisy kids don't belong in hides where Bitterns are expected at close-quarters. As for children being as entitled as anyone else, I'm sure nobody wants alcohol swilling football hooligans or druggies or fornicators in hides: stretching tolerance beyond all reason is for Guardian-readers. Properly brought up children are welcome anywhere I am.

John

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That's absolutely ridiculous saying that young people are alcohol swilling football hooligans or druggies or fornicators. There are as many middle aged people as well as young people doing that and both are in a minority.. I don't know why you are always running down the younger generation.
Ian.

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Farnboro John said:

IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:

There's nothing old-fashioned about putting wildlife first on reserves, and noisy kids don't belong in hides where Bitterns are expected at close-quarters. As for children being as entitled as anyone else, I'm sure nobody wants alcohol swilling football hooligans or druggies or fornicators in hides: stretching tolerance beyond all reason is for Guardian-readers. Properly brought up children are welcome anywhere I am.

John

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Quite agree,there is a nature reserve reasonably close to me & when I questioned the use of non opening 1 way glass on some windows I was told it's for the kids not you photographers.The same wildlife trust also bangs on about needing us photographers to donate images,so with a bit of give & take on both sides a solution could be reached.

Cheers.

Steve.B

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IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:

Farnboro John said:

That's absolutely ridiculous saying that young people are alcohol swilling football hooligans or druggies or fornicators. There are as many middle aged people as well as young people doing that and both are in a minority.. I don't know why you are always running down the younger generation.
Ian.

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I didn't say that. I said that if you suggest everyone has the same right to use hides then you extend that right to those undesirable people. Read and understand.

I have not run down the younger generation. I have suggested that some young people are not fit to be entrusted with the close proximity to (usually) special nature that hides facilitate, and should either be trained first or kept away. I have also implied that some young people are in fact too young for such experiences (but they could always be taught to appreciate feeding the ducks on their local pond, if the council jobsworths haven't banned that.)

It is nonsense to suggest that those who are not ready for it should be let loose on the more precious, scarce and vulnerable elements of nature - which is not to say that garrulous old people, chavs and others who don't match their behaviour to the opportunities offered shouldn't be dealt with by being shown the door. However, particularly in the modern environment where it is practically a capital crime to correct bad behaviour in the young if you aren't the parent (whereas you can tongue-lash an adult fairly freely provided you don't think they have a 9mm in their pocket) it is essential that those responsible for the young actually discharge that responsibility. I don't see why you have a problem with that.

John

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Farnboro John said:

IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:

I didn't say that. I said that if you suggest everyone has the same right to use hides then you extend that right to those undesirable people. Read and understand.

I have not run down the younger generation. I have suggested that some young people are not fit to be entrusted with the close proximity to (usually) special nature that hides facilitate, and should either be trained first or kept away. I have also implied that some young people are in fact too young for such experiences (but they could always be taught to appreciate feeding the ducks on their local pond, if the council jobsworths haven't banned that.)

It is nonsense to suggest that those who are not ready for it should be let loose on the more precious, scarce and vulnerable elements of nature - which is not to say that garrulous old people, chavs and others who don't match their behaviour to the opportunities offered shouldn't be dealt with by being shown the door. However, particularly in the modern environment where it is practically a capital crime to correct bad behaviour in the young if you aren't the parent (whereas you can tongue-lash an adult fairly freely provided you don't think they have a 9mm in their pocket) it is essential that those responsible for the young actually discharge that responsibility. I don't see why you have a problem with that.

John

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:eek!:3

but you probably realised that this would get some comment

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chris butterworth said:

I think the most 'egalitarian' hides I have ever come across used to be at WWT Ouse Washes. Once you'd left the tarts boudoir there were only plastic watchmens huts with a hole cut in the rear overlooking the reserve, and a bit of sacking draped over the hole. They made sure you really wanted to watch / photograph the birds, and were prepared to put a bit of effort in.

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Telephoto Paul said:

In the report I linked to in the opening post, one of the hides is a converted portaloo... (as a one-person photo hide)

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Farnboro John said:

Ideal for the photographer as it permits flushing!

John

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