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Wheatear sp. Istria, Romania (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Earnest lad
- Start date
lou salomon
the birdonist
juv northern, yes.
Earnest lad
Well-known member
Thank you so much.
Brian J Small
Well-known member
Just out of interest, how are you ruling out Eastern Black-eared?
My gut-feeling is EBW rather than NW.
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/P86C5D/ju...anica-melanoleuca-in-northern-iran-P86C5D.jpg
B
lou salomon
the birdonist
of course juv wheatears are very similar and an extremely difficult matter. but EBW doesn't breed nearby (closest are at cap kaliakra in bulgaria), while there are at least 4 pairs of northern wheatear nesting in the ruins of histria fortification. ok, now what i found in 3 online-pics of melanoleuca and in shirihai/svensson is a very conspicous white median covert bar in EBW while only a minority of northerns are showing this, usually less conspicous. also structurally - bill looks strong and legs long for EBW.
Brian J Small
Well-known member
Are you sure?
http://datazone.birdlife.org/species/factsheet/black-eared-wheatear-oenanthe-hispanica/distribution
In any case, pure Black-eared Wheatear is a rare species on the Romanian Black Sea coast, so we may never know from these suboptimal images. I personally don't see NW in these...
B
lou salomon
the birdonist
yes i'm sure about the distribution. i worked on the breeding atlas and also know about the most recent records in that well surveyed region. the yellow area in southern romanian dobrogea is wrong. just a few male melanoleuca entered some places and produced hybrids with pied. but i agree the pics are suboptimal and a juv wheatear might not be possible to be identified by them. i'm still convinced it is just a northern - what exactly is it that makes you feel EBW, Brian?
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
Lou, I know juveniles can have shorter wings, but aren't those pp really too short for NW ?
lou salomon
the birdonist
i don't think so, valery. and it's a bit hard to measure pp exactly, but it looks to be around 100 which is ok for a juv northern. pp is longer than tail projection.
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
I estimate this pp at about 60% and, generally speaking, falling very short on the tail base. I might be wrong though, photos are... what ? Suboptimal (I like this work ! 8-P).
rollingthunder
Well-known member
I find this an an interesting thread primarily through the knowledge and thoughts of those participating - and all because Earnest Lad couldn’t be bothered to try and ID a juvenile Wheatear.....spp.....for himself
Laurie:t:
Laurie:t:
kb57
Well-known member
I find this an an interesting thread primarily through the knowledge and thoughts of those participating - and all because Earnest Lad couldn’t be bothered to try and ID a juvenile Wheatear.....spp.....for himself
Laurie:t:
Isn't that a little unfair? The OP stated in post #1 he wanted confirmation it was a juvenile Northern Wheatear, ergo he had made a preliminary identification and was seeking expert advice.
lou salomon
the birdonist
you overlooked the smiley, kb57, which referred to a long discussion on another thread.
valery, here's a juv northern with not fully grown rectrices and primarries, pp about 70% i guess: https://scontent.ffra1-1.fna.fbcdn....=dc85bbcbc7d5ef14564086199c278247&oe=5DC5B4BB
valery, here's a juv northern with not fully grown rectrices and primarries, pp about 70% i guess: https://scontent.ffra1-1.fna.fbcdn....=dc85bbcbc7d5ef14564086199c278247&oe=5DC5B4BB
rollingthunder
Well-known member
Thanks Lou:t:
kb57
Well-known member
Wow, that'll teach me for looking at this thread in isolation...still puzzling how an OP without a photo can end up as a critique of 'birding by camera'...(and before I inadvertently kick anything off on this thread, don't shoot, I'm a 'binocs-first' guy!!!)
Are you sure EBW breeds at Kaliakra, Lou? I only know of Pied there.
Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
I've often seen EBW in the years 1990 at Kaliakra, including some males breeding with a female pied ; that was a kind of discovery at that time.
lou salomon
the birdonist
well, same as you, andy. i assumed it breeds there because of the (maybe eronously drawn) distribution maps and the presence of 1-2 males i also encountered there (back in 2002). but no, i'm not sure.
