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Frog and Newt IDs, SW Germany, June 2018

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Old Friday 8th June 2018, 08:54   #1
Sangahyando
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Frog and Newt IDs, SW Germany, June 2018

Hi all,

I've found this frog in the northern Neckar valley, hopping across a lane at night. At the time I was aware it was a frog, it was unfortunately already in the meadow.
I'm stumped since it kind of looks like a Common Frog, but also has a dorsal stripe which the species usually lacks, according to wikipedia. It was mid-sized as far as European frog species go.

The newt is an individual I've encountered in the northern Black Forest at 900 m ASL, in a small, muddy, but densely populated roadside pool (probably the result of recent rainfall) together with a lot of small black objects that must've been either tadpoles or water beetles, and other newts. The track the pool was located next to is a footpath leading to a locally well-known raised bog reserve. The surrounding forest mostly consists of spruce and fir, with some interspersed meadows etc.
I've narrowed down the choice to either Palmate Newt (allegedly more common than Common at these hights), or Smooth (Common) Newt, due to colouration. It was relatively small, IIRC shorter than 10 cm.
Some of the other newts it was with showed a blackish back and a orangey or yellow underside. They were relatively small as well (at most, the same size) and at the other side of the pond, and I couldn't get a picture of them. They didn't have conspicuous crests either.

All images are cropped.
Feedback would be very welcome. Any suggestions?

- Andy
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Old Friday 8th June 2018, 10:22   #2
andyadcock
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The Frog actually looks like Natterjack Toad.



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Old Friday 8th June 2018, 12:19   #3
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yeah looks like a natterjack toad to me too, and the newt looks like a smooth newt.
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Old Friday 8th June 2018, 14:15   #4
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Interesting, thanks for the replies. I did think of a toad briefly, but the face seemed wrong, what with the brown "cheeks". Then again, that could be the shadow from a blade of grass. One detail though - the animal hopped from the concrete slab of the lane unto the meadow. IIRC toads, including Natterjacks, walk. Or do they jump in emergencies?

Levideen, which features made you rule out Palmate Newt? I'm pretty new to herp IDs, so would appreciate any pointers.
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Old Saturday 9th June 2018, 06:03   #5
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The frog is a frog, NO natterjeck toad (Epidalea calamita). It is a water or green frog, Pelophylax sp., probably Pelophylax klepton esculentus or ridibundus.
The newt should be helveticus, but not or sure sorry.
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Old Saturday 9th June 2018, 14:55   #6
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Thank you for the input P. ridibundus (and the other one probably as well) is certainly common in the area. Unfortunately, I don't have any better pics of the newt, not even ones from other angles.

Any other opinions?
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Old Friday 12th October 2018, 23:37   #7
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First is moor frog and I think the newt is a smooth newt.
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Old Saturday 13th October 2018, 11:18   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelSkepers View Post
First is moor frog and I think the newt is a smooth newt.
Doesn't look like the Moor Frogs we have here?

I can only separate Moor Frog from Common Frog in the spring when the males turn briefly blue.
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Old Saturday 13th October 2018, 12:37   #9
Sangahyando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelSkepers View Post
First is moor frog and I think the newt is a smooth newt.
Thanks for your input. Like Andy, I'm not entirely sure why you think it's a Moor Frog though. Particularly seeing as I don't think they even occur in that particular region (densely inhabited Rhine valley).
Regarding the newt, what makes you say Smooth as opposed to Palmate? I'm genuinely curious since I find herps to be notoriously vague and difficult to ID, and would appreciate any additional info.
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Old Saturday 13th October 2018, 17:27   #10
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Look at the pale, dorsal line on these Palmate Newts, just like yours, seems to be present in a lot of images of Palmate I found though not mentioned as an ID feature.

https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/wildl...s/palmate-newt

https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/wildl...s/palmate-newt
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