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Borneo shorebirds (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dixonlau
- Start date
dixonlau
Well-known member
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Oh wow, I just looked up Terek Sandpiper and found out they travelled so far from home to here (passing only ). Such a beauty indeed :t:Thanks Gerben
johnallcock
Well-known member
Are the plover pictures the same bird?
The first looks best for Tibetan, but the second is definitely Greater.
I agree with Terek, of course - very distinctive.
The first looks best for Tibetan, but the second is definitely Greater.
I agree with Terek, of course - very distinctive.
dixonlau
Well-known member
oh, johnallcock, just saw your reply after I sent my followup.
As for plover, I not so sure if both same bird because they are moving around in same area of the beach. I believe not same bird based on time I took the pic. Few minutes apart and not in same direct. However, it may fly over to another direction I am photographing.
Could you point out which factor make you think pic 1 is Lesser Sand-Plover (Tibetan)? I can't tell the difference :eek!:
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Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Which race are you calling 'Tibetan' John?
'Mongolian' I've heard used for Lesser but not Tibetan.
BobbitWorm45
Well-known member
As described in HBW-
Lesser Sand-Plover (Tibetan)
Charadrius mongolus [atrifrons Group]
Lesser Sand-Plover (Tibetan)
Charadrius mongolus [atrifrons Group]
johnallcock
Well-known member
Yes, Tibetan for the atrifrons group. This is likely to be split from mongolus. New genetic data supporting the split was presented last week.
The well-defined, narrow supercilium, the small, rounded head and the shape of the breast band look promising for Tibetan. However, the bill shape looks quite long and pointed, which is better for Greater.
I'm not entirely sure about ID of this photo, the features that look like Tibetan may be a illusion caused by the position of the bird and light, and it may in fact be a Greater SP. More photos might be useful if you have any.
The other two plover photos you've attached are definitely Greater SP.
I agree with this while not committing to (sub)-species for the lesser sandplover. The other pic the op posted is greater too. To tell the 2 apart is difficult and largely based on structural differences. You should be able to see a larger thicker bill on greater, with slightly different proportions (more delicate, more attenuated appearance on lesser). In this particular case we can see minor plumage differences as in the supercilium too.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
It also seems to have VERY dark legs which whilst not diagnostic in themselves, are often an indicator ot Lesser, I think your first call was right FWIW.
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
IMO, clearly not the same bird. Two things jump out to me are the white edging on the lower bird that is not present on the upper bird, and the width of the breastbone (as well as the leg color difference noted by Andy).
Agree with Lesser for the upper and Greater for the lower, but I'll leave it to the experts for the subspecies.
Agree with Lesser for the upper and Greater for the lower, but I'll leave it to the experts for the subspecies.
dixonlau
Well-known member
Thank you guys for all the help. Sorry for late reply. I went back again to take better pic of the mentioned plover. I named each pic with ID # for better reference later.
Pics below were newly taken (Tuesday morning). Each pic not same bird. Each can see clearly its legs and bill.
I did noticed some have shorter bill and some have yellowish color on its legs.
Also, not sure if my eyes are playing illusion on me or not, I noticed Pic #B4 its head shape seems little bulge out? I have few more pics of this same bird (#B4). Will attach in followup post if needed. Was limited to 5 pic attachment in single post.
#A1 - Previous attached first pic which believed to be Lesser. Taken last Sunday.
Pics below were newly taken (Tuesday morning). Each pic not same bird. Each can see clearly its legs and bill.
I did noticed some have shorter bill and some have yellowish color on its legs.
Also, not sure if my eyes are playing illusion on me or not, I noticed Pic #B4 its head shape seems little bulge out? I have few more pics of this same bird (#B4). Will attach in followup post if needed. Was limited to 5 pic attachment in single post.
#B1 - yellowish on its leg and it seems the bill looks longer?
#B2
#B3 - yellowish on legs and looks longer bill too
#B4 - strange bulge head shape. legs are black/dark. no yellowish seen.
johnallcock
Well-known member
Actually I agree these are two birds. I just wanted to check because I thought from dixon's first post that he was suggesting they were the same individual.
dixonlau
Well-known member
Hi john, after I checked, the two may not be same bird as I was too excited shooting whichever bird I saw. So I could not be sure if both are same bird. Also it is unfortunate I don't have any follow-up pic of that first bird, not that I could recall even after looked back my files.
I went back there again to take better pic. And did noticed different individual plover has yellowish color legs and some bill looks longer.
Nevertheless, thanks for the help.
johnallcock
Well-known member
#B1. Greater. Note the long, pointed bill, dark mask and almost complete breast band. Pale tarsus.
#B2. Tibetan. Quite a small, dainty bird, rounded head, short, blunt bill. Well-defined white supercilium, extensive white on forehead and lores, fairly small breast band at sides only. Dark legs.
#B3. Greater. Long, pointed bill and large, square head. Dark mask, fairly broad breast band and pale tarsus. An interesting bird, because the supercilium/forehead/lores are pale and quite similar to Tibetan, but structure indicates Greater.
#B4. Tibetan. Small head and short, blunt bill. Very extensive white on forehead and lores, clean white supercilium. Breast band restricted to sides only. Dark legs.
I think the 'bulge' you mention on #B4 is actually due to the angle of the bird. The top of the head is quite broad to give space for the large eyes, and what you see here is the shape of the eye socket on the opposite side of the head.
dixonlau
Well-known member
That is super awesome John. Now I will know to pay more attention when I saw these plover again next time. My initial thought was they are same single species.
Thanks again for pointing out the key points.
