Pipit ID help required, N Germany, 02/2018 (1 Viewer)

Sangahyando · Mar 7, 2018

Here we go again. Saw this pipit in the saltmarshes near Husum, North Germany, at the end of February. It only called briefly and sounded a bit like a Rock/Water Pipit. Wouldn't swear on that impression, though.
Sorry for the blurry pics (I couldn't get closer because I didn't want to flush this bird, or the Shorelarks that were foraging in between it and myself), but at least they're from different angles this time. Pictures are heavily cropped. I *think* they're all from the same bird. Not sure about the last one, though.
Have I mentioned that I'm bad with pipits?

Any help would be welcome.

- Andy

Rotherbirder · Mar 7, 2018

Could well be a Water Pipit, especially looking at image 4; good, strong wing bars, eye-ring & supercilium The apparent yellow/green tinge is presumably just a result of the prevailing light conditions?

RB

RafaelMatias · Mar 7, 2018

Indeed a Water Pipit.

Sangahyando · Mar 7, 2018

Thanks both. Any dissent?

Rotherbirder said:
Could well be a Water Pipit, especially looking at image 4; good, strong wing bars, eye-ring & supercilium The apparent yellow/green tinge is presumably just a result of the prevailing light conditions?

RB

Indeed, my camera struggles to adjust to certain colours, particularly light green, and I didn't have the time to select a manual mode or manipulate the ISO.

I had initially discarded the idea of Water Pipit because I expected the supercilium to be even stronger, but as I said, I'm not great with pipits.
Can Rock Pipit be excluded? I often see the latter during the winter here on the east coast, and much closer too (and have gotten better pictures), but they strike me as much more dusky. This individual appeared to be the wrong shade of brown in the field, too light, more like a Mipit (although I've seen some Mipits that looked very dusky and greyish from above, thanks to weird lighting conditions). When the above set of pictures was taken, the sun was shining and it was slightly below zero degrees.

Andrew Whitehouse · Mar 7, 2018

Agree with Water Pipit for the first four pictures. You mention that the last one might have been of a different bird and I think it could be a Meadow Pipit from what can be seen e.g. quite strong streaking on the mantle. Not certain though.

Sangahyando · Mar 8, 2018

Andrew Whitehouse said:
Agree with Water Pipit for the first four pictures. You mention that the last one might have been of a different bird and I think it could be a Meadow Pipit from what can be seen e.g. quite strong streaking on the mantle. Not certain though.

But are you certain in the ID of the first four pics? I could live with the last one not being certain, as I see Meadow Pipits quite often, and under better conditions, anyway.

Edit: there were at least two pipits in the area, although at first I only saw one (and then two, possibly including the first individual).

Andrew Whitehouse · Mar 8, 2018

Sangahyando said:
But are you certain in the ID of the first four pics? I could live with the last one not being certain, as I see Meadow Pipits quite often, and under better conditions, anyway.

I think it depends on the burden of proof here. I think it looks like a Water Pipit but some features that are important are hard to judge from the photos e.g. the tone of the brown upperparts and rump. It looks better for Water Pipit in my view than other species and I don't see any clear reason why it's not a Water Pipit but is this enough?

I can put myself in your shoes because I live in an area where Water Pipit is a bit of a rarity so the burden of proof would be quite high if I were to claim one locally. If I had photos like yours and was just going on the photos I'd be a bit cautious about claiming it without any doubts at all. Hopefully I'd be able to augment the photos with field observations that would help to clarify things though.

Rotherbirder · Mar 8, 2018

Andrew Whitehouse said:
I think it depends on the burden of proof here. I think it looks like a Water Pipit but some features that are important are hard to judge from the photos e.g. the tone of the brown upperparts and rump. It looks better for Water Pipit in my view than other species and I don't see any clear reason why it's not a Water Pipit but is this enough?

I can put myself in your shoes because I live in an area where Water Pipit is a bit of a rarity so the burden of proof would be quite high if I were to claim one locally. If I had photos like yours and was just going on the photos I'd be a bit cautious about claiming it without any doubts at all. Hopefully I'd be able to augment the photos with field observations that would help to clarify things though.

What Andrew said!

RB

Sangahyando · Mar 8, 2018

Thank you both. That makes sense; it's not a lifer for me, but I just like being certain.
Unfortunatly my notes on the bird are kind of useless (was distracted by the Shorelarks, which were a de facto lifer for me) and the lighting didn't help. Next time, I'll endeavour to have better notes, and better pictures, hopefully, too.

RafaelMatias · Mar 8, 2018

I agree one should be cautious with IDs made from such low-res photos. But to me the photos show standard Water Pipit. This is a common wintering species around here (although picky on habitat) and the rarity is Rock Pipit (only on rocky coasts though). I don't see anything wrong for a Water Pipit, and actually I think making it a Meadow Pipit would require a good deal of argumentation. The last pic is more problematic, as there are a lot of photo artifacts affecting it (and thus I'm not considering it), but the others are quite straightforward imo. Proportions of head-body, facial pattern, upperparts pattern are all in support of Water Pipit.

nobbyball · Mar 8, 2018

RafaelMatias said:
I agree one should be cautious with IDs made from such low-res photos. But to me the photos show standard Water Pipit. This is a common wintering species around here (although picky on habitat) and the rarity is Rock Pipit (only on rocky coasts though). I don't see anything wrong for a Water Pipit, and actually I think making it a Meadow Pipit would require a good deal of argumentation. The last pic is more problematic, as there are a lot of photo artifacts affecting it (and thus I'm not considering it), but the others are quite straightforward imo. Proportions of head-body, facial pattern, upperparts pattern are all in support of Water Pipit.

Can I link to this interesting article that references Scandanavian Rock Pipits.

http://northlancsringinggroup.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/scandinavian-rock-pipit-in-north.html

It actually mentions that they are found away from rocks in the saltmarsh creeks of North Germany (as in fact Rock Pipits are here in Lancashire) I studied these pictures just to make sure it wasn't littoralis Rock Pipit which can have many similarities to Water Pipit, especially as we approach Spring. I believe I can see white outer tail feathers which suggest that it is possibly a Water Pipit, but a feature of littoralis is the supercilium being stronger behind the eye like this bird, and also the breast has some buff colouration on the flanks...

The final picture adds a puzzle, however it would be too olive for littoralis Rock Pipit either, and nominate petrosus Rock Pipit (which would be darker) should not be found here. I'm of the opinion, as pipits often appear and disappear quite easily when feeding, that it is more likely a Meadow Pipit in picture 5.

Cheers
Ian

Sangahyando · Mar 8, 2018

Thanks Rafael and Ian. Unfortunately I didn't pay enough attention to the outer tail feathers in the field.

Regarding littoralis Rock Pipits, all of the ones I've (conscioulsy) seen here in Germany looked rather darker than this bird. It's interesting that they have been reported from a very similar type of habitat to where I found the bird above (outer saltmarsh creeks), as the pictures were taken in the pastures outside of the dike, only a few metres away from the "wild" saltmarsh. Here on the east coast of the Schleswig-Holstein state though, Rock Pipits prefer their normal habitat where it exists; I've repeatedly observed them on rocky beaches and groynes around Kiel, sometimes next to Purple Sandpipers.

BTW, I've observed Rock Pipits in Dorset and Devonshire in summer. Those must've been petrosus, right?

nobbyball · Mar 8, 2018

Your summer Rock Pipits in Devon and Dorset would have been ’petrosus’.

Here in Lancashire the availability of rocky habitat is very limited but where it does exist, Rock Pipit will make a preference for it. However they are regular on the salt marshes. I imagine over there in North Germany the same thing happens so it’s no surprise you usually see them where you have rocky habitat. Your field observations add a lot to the pictures which does add further weight to it being more likely Water Pipit... like I said, I found it an interesting article because of the North Germany link

Cheers
Ian

Sangahyando · Mar 8, 2018

Thanks - that makes sense.

Cheers, Andy

Pipit ID help required, N Germany, 02/2018 (1 Viewer)

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