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Is IS for the birds? (1 Viewer)

Not an IS expert, but afaik, the Canon design was to minimize the hand held high frequency jitter that is generated by the body's own correcting moves when trying to keep looking at some object. The initial Fuji offerings by contrast were to offset wave motion, so a larger amplitude correction was essential, but the frequency targeted was less. Consequently jitter was not offset as well.
Presumably Fuji has improved its technology, but I'd like to see that documented. Increasing the correction angle from 5 degrees to 6 degrees does not clarify whether it is more effective on the small high frequency tremors that limit the performance of non IS binoculars.
I can't judge the Rockwell claim about the Canon image softening when the IS is on, simply because my reference is the image without the IS and that falls well short of what I get with the IS on.
Possibly Mr Rockwell put his Canon on a tripod to get an optimal non IS image and then compared to the result with the IS on. There may well be some difference then, but this user cannot see it in the field.
When I compared the Canon 12x36 IS III to the Fujinon TS 14x40 with the IS on the Fujinon was clearly superior in resolution and the ability to control jitters and bigger motion. The Fujinon was rock steady but there was still jitters with the Canon, so I can easily see the Fujinon IS is better with jitters AND larger movements. The Fujinon also does not get softer when the IS is on like the Canon does.
 
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I agree completely. When I had Canon IS 8x25,_I often compared it to my 'top end' SVs, UVs, whatever. With the IS on, I could always pick out and really enjoy tiny details of feathering, etc. that I didn't even notice with non IS 'alpba' 8x binos. I would dearly love a pair of Canon IS 8x32/42. Unicorn binos.
The Canon 8x20 IS is a much better binocular than the older Canon 8x25 IS and it is has excellent resolution and with the IS on it is rock steady. I used it last night before it snowed.
 
The new Fujinon's are optically better than any of the Canon's including the Canon 10x42 IS-L and the Canon 18x50 IS because Fujinon uses solid glass shifting prisms and Canon uses fluid-filled wet bag prisms which cause the Canon's image to soften when you use the IS, whereas, the Fujinons stay sharp. It is very easy to see when you compare them side by side. The Fujinon IS also stabilizes better than the Canon reducing jitters and big shakes to a greater degree so you get a more rock solid view when hand held. The Fujinon has less CA than any of the regular Canons and is about on par with the Canon 10x42 IS-L which uses ED glass to control CA so the Fujinons control CA very well. The Canon 10x42 IS-L has a bigger FOV than the Fujinon but when the IS is on the Fujinon is sharper and you really notice it when you say are trying to read a sign from a great distance. Ken Rockwell explains a lot of this below but I observed the same thing.

"I found that the Canons get softer when their IS is ON. Even though much less sharp than Leicas or good Nikon's, the Canons allowed me to read handwriting 75 feet (25 m) away because of their stabilized image. Other binoculars impressed me with their sharpness, but since their images wiggle even in my rock-steady grip, I couldn't actually read the fine details. These Fujinons impressed me because they have stabilization as well as the sharpness of the other high-end non-stabilized binoculars. They are the best of both worlds. They don't get softer with stabilization ON. These Fujinons use solid-glass shifting prisms to stabilize the image. Canon uses mushy fluid-filled wet-bag prisms, which is why I suspect the Canons get softer with IS active. With IS, the Canons often have a constant dithering of the edges; artifacts of the interaction of the IS system with the motions it's attempting to counter. The Fujinons have none of these problems and lock down a sharp, rock-stable image. The Canons fade in and out of sharpness. I'd rather a Canon IS over Leica for utility (Leica still wins at mechanical build quality), and I bought (whoops, asked Santa to get me) these Fujinons because of their greater sharpness and contrast over the Canons. Other folks have emailed me that they prefer the Canons, and I'm a little confused at that. I've never seen these Fujinons at retail. I only saw them at an industry trade show where I also was able to compare them directly to the Canons and Leicas and Nikons and everything else. The differences are obvious and repeatable. The Canons get soft with the IS on; they are OK with it off, but who cares how sharp they are with IS off? With further questioning of these Internet reports it seems none of them had ever actually seen these Fujinons. I only saw them at a huge industry trade show where every vendor brought everything in their catalogs. You may be able to find the Nikon Stabileyes, which seem identical, at retail for comparison against the Canons. I tried the Canons again (18x50). The Canons are sharp with the IS off, but turning IS on softens the image as the mush-prisms do their work. The stabilized images softly fade in and out of sharpness as Canon's wet bag prisms wiggle around. The Fujinons use solid glass prisms in rotating gimbals, so no quality is lost as they deflect to counter motion. The Fujinons are as sharp with IS on or off; their prisms always have parallel sides. The Canons' wet bags are deflected from parallel (made trapezoidal) to counter motion as it happens. Look for yourself: the Canons fade in and out of sharpness; it's not your imagination. The Fujinons stay sharp. Who cares how sharp they are with IS off? I bought these to use with IS ON."

https://www.kenrockwell.com/fuji/fujinon-14x40.htm

Thank you .... Can I ask you once again to describe to me the image quality: colors, contrast, light, transparency of the new Fujinon 14x40 TSX1440 compared to Swarovski NL Pure ... color accuracy, clarity, transparency, light, contrast .. Because I'm thinking to buy such a Fujinon 14x40 TSX1440 and Swarovski NL Pure 8x42 ... So to have Swarovski 8x42NL and 14x40fujinon (new) TSX
 
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Thank you .... Can I ask you once again to describe to me the image quality: colors, contrast, light, transparency of the new Fujinon 14x40 TSX1440 compared to Swarovski NL Pure ... color accuracy, clarity, transparency, light, contrast .. Because I'm thinking to buy such a Fujinon 14x40 TSX1440 and Swarovski NL Pure 8x42 ... So to have Swarovski 8x42NL and 14x40fujinon (new) TSX
The NL has slightly richer colors, contrast is about equal, the NL is brighter especially in low light having a bigger exit pupil and the NL is slightly more transparent. The NL overall is better optically than the Fujinon but it is better than almost any binocular normal or IS. That being said the Fujinon has excellent optics even for a normal binocular but when you push the IS button even the NL is left in the dust especially when it comes to seeing detail. I don't believe any of the IS binoculars will equal the optical performance of the NL so you can't expect the Fujinon too but the Fujinon allows you to see detail and markings on a bird that you can not see with the NL and it gives you something no other binocular can a rock steady view.
 
The NL has slightly richer colors, contrast is about equal, the NL is brighter especially in low light having a bigger exit pupil and the NL is slightly more transparent. The NL overall is better optically than the Fujinon but it is better than almost any binocular normal or IS. That being said the Fujinon has excellent optics even for a normal binocular but when you push the IS button even the NL is left in the dust especially when it comes to seeing detail. I don't believe any of the IS binoculars will equal the optical performance of the NL so you can't expect the Fujinon too but the Fujinon allows you to see detail and markings on a bird that you can not see with the NL and it gives you something no other binocular can a rock steady view.
Thank you. As far as I understand Fujinon 14x40 TSX is very nice: Optically it is close to Canon 10x42L. And are binoculars healthy in general? How many years would such a new IS binoculars last?
 
Looking back through a couple old threads and a few other online resources, I found a few references to lag on starting the IS on the older model, and to disorienting / offputting swimming of the image when you pan quickly with IS on.

Must have been very old threads. This happened in the very beginning, then Canon apparently improved the IS without making a big fuzz about it. I don't see any of this effect in current Canon IS binoculars including late models of the 10x42 and the 10x30.

As to Ken Rockwell ... Forget about him and the stuff he writes.

Hermann
 
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The Canon 8x20 IS is a much better binocular than the older Canon 8x25 IS and it is has excellent resolution and with the IS on it is rock steady. I used it last night before it snowed.

Agreed. The only weaknesses of the 8x20 are the smallish field of view and of course the smallish exit pupil. Also the build quality could be better - but then the 8x20 is pretty cheap.

Hermann
 
Must have been very old threads. This happened in the very beginning, then Canon apparently improved the IS without making a big fuzz about it. I don't see any of this effect in current Canon IS binoculars including late models of the 10x42 and the 10x30.

As to Ken Rockwell ... Forget about him and the stuff he writes.

Hermann

Apologies for not being clear - I was referring to the older version of the 14x Fujinon.

I’ve only ever heard/seen 1-2 complaints about the IS on the Canon 50mm models, and they might have been very old, I don’t recall. But when I researched the Fuji 14x40 a few years ago, there were a lot more complaints about the IS behavior.
 
Dennis, I don't think you have yet covered in this thread, what for (or how) you have actually (or will) use these 14x TSX Fuji's .... ?

I looked up the specs on these, and while they might have changed the ergos a bit, the paltry 70m Fov (56° AFov - and I'm not even sure the ER is enough with glasses to get even that meager amount) and anvil like 1.3kg weight remain !

Who wants to be carrying 1.3kg around, and for what ?

If you're asking "is IS for the birds?" ...... then what's the answer ? :cat:

Given your lightweight preferences in the past, I wonder how long it will be before you tire of carrying this straw-viewed brick around ??








Chosun :gh:
 
Dennis, I don't think you have yet covered in this thread, what for (or how) you have actually (or will) use these 14x TSX Fuji's .... ?

I looked up the specs on these, and while they might have changed the ergos a bit, the paltry 70m Fov (56° AFov - and I'm not even sure the ER is enough with glasses to get even that meager amount) and anvil like 1.3kg weight remain !

Who wants to be carrying 1.3kg around, and for what ?

If you're asking "is IS for the birds?" ...... then what's the answer ? :cat:

Given your lightweight preferences in the past, I wonder how long it will be before you tire of carrying this straw-viewed brick around ??








Chosun :gh:

Yes ... very heavy ..
 
Dennis, I don't think you have yet covered in this thread, what for (or how) you have actually (or will) use these 14x TSX Fuji's .... ?

I looked up the specs on these, and while they might have changed the ergos a bit, the paltry 70m Fov (56° AFov - and I'm not even sure the ER is enough with glasses to get even that meager amount) and anvil like 1.3kg weight remain !

Who wants to be carrying 1.3kg around, and for what ?

If you're asking "is IS for the birds?" ...... then what's the answer ? :cat:

Given your lightweight preferences in the past, I wonder how long it will be before you tire of carrying this straw-viewed brick around ??








Chosun :gh:
I use the Fujinon 14x40 TSX1440 for Pelagics and Raptors especially Eagles from an overlook and or for long distance wildlife observing from a static position. I like to observe Wolves in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming and the valley is huge and the wolves are very wary so the 14x magnification is very helpful and I also use them to look at the night sky. I find the IS really gives you a better view and it is fabulous on lunar observation. I would buy the Fujinons just for the moon. I don't hike very much with them and when I do I hire somebody to carry them for me. Also, they are great on goats in the high cliffs!
 
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Must have been very old threads. This happened in the very beginning, then Canon apparently improved the IS without making a big fuzz about it. I don't see any of this effect in current Canon IS binoculars including late models of the 10x42 and the 10x30.

As to Ken Rockwell ... Forget about him and the stuff he writes.

Hermann
Sorry to disagree but Ken Rockwell is right on in this case. I have the latest Canon 12x36 IS III and I just had a recent Canon 10x42 IS and the image softened on both of them when using the IS. it is hard to see if you just have the Canons but when you compare the Canons with the Fujinons and you look closely the softening is there and as Ken says it is repeatable. There are no artifacts with the Fujinon. With the Fujinons I can read distant license plates and signs much better than I can with the Canons. Partly due to the fact the Canons image softens and partly due to the fact that the IS on the Fujinon has a steadier image with less CA. Fujinon developed IS and their top gyro IS binoculars such as the 12x40 S1240D Stabiscope Binoculars are considered the best IS binoculars you can buy with some of them costing more than $5K. They are used in the military and in police surveillance. That technology has filtered down to the Fujinon 14x40 TSX.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...512400_S1240D_12x40_Stabiscope_Binocular.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...6x40_Gyro_Stabilzed_Binocular.html?ap=y&smp=y
 

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Dennis, I don't think you have yet covered in this thread, what for (or how) you have actually (or will) use these 14x TSX Fuji's .... ?

I looked up the specs on these, and while they might have changed the ergos a bit, the paltry 70m Fov (56° AFov - and I'm not even sure the ER is enough with glasses to get even that meager amount) and anvil like 1.3kg weight remain !

Who wants to be carrying 1.3kg around, and for what ?

Chosun :gh:


Very good questions and I think it's safe to say the Fujinon in its current configuration is probably not the ideal birding tool. Its capabilities could come in really handy for certain jobs though - identifying birds at long distance, or getting a really good look at birds closer in.

It's the next generation of IS binoculars that the alpha manufacturers should be concerned about (or maybe not, see next paragraph) and the new Canons like the 12x36 and 8x20 seem to be getting there. They are probably already there image-wise. It's one thing for denco to say he can see more detail with the 8x20 IS than his 8x42 NL - but when the likes of kabsetz, Hermann and Sancho concur...

I can imagine, maybe 20 years down the line, there might be two camps of binocular users - the traditionalists, and those using IS binoculars. It'll be a bit like those using digital cameras and those who still favour film, or maybe like those who prefer track driving with stick shift sportscars versus those with paddles. The guys/girls using the more advanced technology will, I have very little doubt, get quicker and better IDs if they're twitchers, and/or enjoy better views if they're general birders, but the traditionalists will continue to be quite happy with their choices.
 
Very good questions and I think it's safe to say the Fujinon in its current configuration is probably not the ideal birding tool. Its capabilities could come in really handy for certain jobs though - identifying birds at long distance, or getting a really good look at birds closer in.

It's the next generation of IS binoculars that the alpha manufacturers should be concerned about (or maybe not, see next paragraph) and the new Canons like the 12x36 and 8x20 seem to be getting there. They are probably already there image-wise. It's one thing for denco to say he can see more detail with the 8x20 IS than his 8x42 NL - but when the likes of kabsetz, Hermann and Sancho concur...

I can imagine, maybe 20 years down the line, there might be two camps of binocular users - the traditionalists, and those using IS binoculars. It'll be a bit like those using digital cameras and those who still favour film, or maybe like those who prefer track driving with stick shift sportscars versus those with paddles. The guys/girls using the more advanced technology will, I have very little doubt, get quicker and better IDs if they're twitchers, and/or enjoy better views if they're general birders, but the traditionalists will continue to be quite happy with their choices.
I think in 20 years all the binoculars will be digital and I don't think there will be any traditional lens binoculars. They will have incredible resolution, IS, zoom, ability to record video and still pictures, and they will probably have automatic bird ID built into the software. They will even have some kind of night vision so you can observe in total darkness also.
 
I think in 20 years all the binoculars will be digital and I don't think there will be any traditional lens binoculars. They will have incredible resolution, IS, zoom, ability to record video and still pictures, and they will probably have automatic bird ID built into the software. They will even have some kind of night vision so you can observe in total darkness also.
I doubt it Dennis....I think people were saying that on the forum nearly twenty years ago! We should gave had all that by now, along with the hoverboards and self-lacing boots! At the time I was more of a traditionalist, preferring the 'purity' of the non-IS bino. Now I'm approaching sixty, and I'm embracing the 21st Century (I've even learned how to use Spotify).
 
I doubt it Dennis....I think people were saying that on the forum nearly twenty years ago! We should gave had all that by now, along with the hoverboards and self-lacing boots! At the time I was more of a traditionalist, preferring the 'purity' of the non-IS bino. Now I'm approaching sixty, and I'm embracing the 21st Century (I've even learned how to use Spotify).
I think there will be 3 categories of instruments:-
* purely optical
* optical with IS
* fully digital - the works^1.

1. What Dennis forgot to mention is that you will be tracked in real-time (purely for your own safety of course ;) ) , and the real-time bird id AI App will be a subscription model mandatorily linked to your citizen credit card which will automatically debit you, pay your conservation tax [even though the fat controllers will still run the world and will have mined well over half of it at that stage for personal profit - receiving a taxpayer subsidy of course, for the good of the economy you understand ;) ] , and what's more this 'voluntary' fee [which will require compulsory presentation of the digital donation voucher in order to enter the half dozen reserves in the world that haven't been completely and utterly fracked] will be charged on a per minute and per bird basis) - cool bananas ! :cool:






Chosun :gh:
 
I doubt it Dennis....I think people were saying that on the forum nearly twenty years ago! We should gave had all that by now, along with the hoverboards and self-lacing boots! At the time I was more of a traditionalist, preferring the 'purity' of the non-IS bino. Now I'm approaching sixty, and I'm embracing the 21st Century (I've even learned how to use Spotify).
What I want to know is where are the "Flying Cars" they promised us?
 
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