Are Zen Rays 8x43 ED's really that good? (1 Viewer)

Alexis Powell said:

But who will answer Dennis' original question? Are these binos so good that a person who wants the best birding bino regardless of price should consider them? I know the alphas very well and how they differ from one another optically and mechanically, and decent reviews describing these differences are readily available on Birdforum and elsewhere. I'd like to see a thorough comparative review of the Zen-Ray ED (and Promaster etc) with the alphas.

--AP

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I think the acid test for the ZEN ED and the Promaster ELX ED is not that they are the absolute equal of the alpha glass. So, like I try to indicate by referring to them as a 99.33% binocular, their selling point is how CLOSE they come in reference to what is paid. There are certainly experienced users of Alpha binoculars who will be able to pick out differences that will escape some people. There is certainly something that has to be in the alphas that justifies those astonishing prices. Certainly there is the silver mirrored vs dielectric mirrored prism, probably technically better glass and broadband coatings, and absolutely top end design. Nowadays, whatever those differences are, they don't jump out and grab your attention as they once did, not so long ago.

So, I think if you can afford the alpha class or if you are a person who simply has a need or "really wants" the absolute best, these probably will not hold much interest. That is also more to do with individual mind set, than actual optical differences. Where they will find their calling is in a different rendition of Stephen Ingram's reference to a "poor man's Swarovski". Maybe we can call them the "blue collar alpha" class. That's where their appeal will lie. When you don't have a lot of money and want a really good, even outstanding binocular there is not a better place to go than one of these.

Now, I haven't done a good thorough comparative review as I would like with the ZEN and Promaster as I would like to be able to do. But I have done enough side by side comparisons now to be pretty confident in my decision to drop consideration of needing an alpha glass. I could always see a difference in an alpha and the Swift Eaglet and Vortex Viper class binoculars I have. That difference is not there in the Alpha-ZEN comparison.

So, Dennis, who has experience with, and appreciation of the Alpha class is ready to do a comparison which I look forward to seeing

Steve C said:

I think the acid test for the ZEN ED and the Promaster ELX ED is not that they are the absolute equal of the alpha glass. So, like I try to indicate by referring to them as a 99.33% binocular, their selling point is how CLOSE they come in reference to what is paid. There are certainly experienced users of Alpha binoculars who will be able to pick out differences that will escape some people. There is certainly something that has to be in the alphas that justifies those astonishing prices. Certainly there is the silver mirrored vs dielectric mirrored prism, probably technically better glass and broadband coatings, and absolutely top end design. Nowadays, whatever those differences are, they don't jump out and grab your attention as they once did, not so long ago.

So, I think if you can afford the alpha class or if you are a person who simply has a need or "really wants" the absolute best, these probably will not hold much interest. That is also more to do with individual mind set, than actual optical differences. Where they will find their calling is in a different rendition of Stephen Ingram's reference to a "poor man's Swarovski". Maybe we can call them the "blue collar alpha" class. That's where their appeal will lie. When you don't have a lot of money and want a really good, even outstanding binocular there is not a better place to go than one of these.

Now, I haven't done a good thorough comparative review as I would like with the ZEN and Promaster as I would like to be able to do. But I have done enough side by side comparisons now to be pretty confident in my decision to drop consideration of needing an alpha glass. I could always see a difference in an alpha and the Swift Eaglet and Vortex Viper class binoculars I have. That difference is not there in the Alpha-ZEN comparison.

So, Dennis, who has experience with, and appreciation of the Alpha class is ready to do a comparison which I look forward to seeing

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I will give my opinion on them once I have had a chance to use them and compare them. I will compare them with my Leica Trinovid 7x42 BN's, Nikon 8x32 LXL'x, and my best glass my Nikon 8x32 SE's. That should be a pretty good test since although these are not the latest Alpha roofs the Nikon 8x32 SE is still considered a reference binocular optically. I will test their sharpness, CA, brightness under different conditions, contrast, flare, black beaning, ergonomics, quality of accessories supplied, etc. Look for my review towards the end of the week. I am not really expecting these to come out on top at there price point but even if they come close they would be a remarkable bargain.

Dennis

Tero said:

I think they are worth what they sell for, even if they all spontaneously combust 5 years later.

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All i can say at this point is that , if/when they combust ,i hope they are not hanging from my neck at that very moment....With their extra-long neck strap they will be hanging pretty close to my "Alphas"!!!:eek!:

mayoayo said:

All i can say at this point is that , if/when they combust ,i hope they are not hanging from my neck at that very moment....With their extra-long neck strap they will be hanging pretty close to my Alphas!!!:eek!:

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If you get 5 years out of them that is still less than $80.00 per year before they combust! You would have to keep an alpha for 25 years to be as cost effective. Just sell them a month before they get your alpha's.

Dennis

[email protected] said:

Do all these Chinese binocuars really compare to the alpha binoculars? I have heard so much talk of how they are equal to Zeiss FL's, Leica and Swarovski EL's and Nikon LXL's and SE's. I mean the Zen Ray 8x43 ED, Hawke Frontier,etc. Do they really measure up to the top binoculars. What's your opinon. Thanks!

Dennis

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My Zen Ray 8 x 43 ED are fully satisfying binoculars which should meet virtually all needs of most users, myself included. At the current acquisition cost for the Zen Ray, there is nothing which even comes close optically or ergonomically, and any binoholic with $360+ to spare at the moment would be foolish to hesitate. To Dennis's question, however, since my alpha binoculars are past era models (Leica BA and Zeiss Dialyt Classic), my opinion is somewhat qualified, but for me, the Zen Rays somehow still lack the cost is no object, "precision instrument" feel and "wow" factor of the alphas.

If the ZenRays were priced at $900, would anyone pick them over the Meoptas?

APS

APSmith said:

If the ZenRays were priced at $900, would anyone pick them over the Meoptas?

APS

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Well, I believe I would. For three principal reasons. I happen to like the ergonomics of the ZEN ED for one. For another, I really do not like the yellow color bias of the Meopta, and thirdly, the image quality of the Meopta is no better than the ZEN. For what it's worth, no worse either.

APSmith said:

If the ZenRays were priced at $900, would anyone pick them over the Meoptas?

APS

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The cool thing is that you don't have to. At ~$370, you can get two ZRs, a yosemite, and a nice steak dinner for the price of one Meopta.

I really liked the meopta, and nearly bought one. I like the optical quality of the ZR just as much, if not more. The FOV feels bigger. Its less flat, but the image in the middle seems to "pop" more. I'm no optics expert, but it just felt a bit more exciting to look through the ZR than the meopta.

Ergonomically, I like the feel of the ZR in the hand better. I like the focus speed/feel on the meopta more, and the strap/accessories much more on the Meopta.

What are the chances one of these Chinese wunderkinds are going to produce a top quality 7x42? Or better yet a 7x32-36?
John

APSmith said:

If the ZenRays were priced at $900, would anyone pick them over the Meoptas?

APS

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Probably not, chiefly due to continued suspicion of the quality of, and quality control for, Chinese optical goods. If the Zen Rays, however, were re-named something like "Gustav Adler GA B" and manufacturing was outsourced to Thuringia, the answer, I have no doubt, would be quite different. It is for this reason that Minox and Docter Optic go to such pains to stress their Euro origins even though much of their production (all, in the case of Minox) is based in Asia.

If I bought a bin at $900 it had better be a repairable product vs. a throwaway.

I had the Zens (borrowed) side by side to my Meopta 7x and the Meopta easily beats the Zen for handling and ergonomics... but this is personal for all.

Compared to my 7x Meoptas the Zens had more field curvature (but the Meopta is known for a very flat field) and a much larger sweetspot. The Zen seemed narrower in FOV. I'm not sure who's numbers are off Zen or Meopta... but one is not correct.

At $360+ the Zens are a really great buy. And if I was to pay that amount for them I'd be a happy camper. But if I paid $900+ for the Zens they'd be sent packing the next day.

They're just good bins. I don't get the Alpha beater talk (maybe I'm just bias on the feel of my 7x Meoptas)

Cheers

[email protected] said:

I will give my opinion on them once I have had a chance to use them and compare them. I will compare them with my Leica Trinovid 7x42 BN's, Nikon 8x32 LXL'x, and my best glass my Nikon 8x32 SE's. That should be a pretty good test since although these are not the latest Alpha roofs the Nikon 8x32 SE is still considered a reference binocular optically. I will test their sharpness, CA, brightness under different conditions, contrast, flare, black beaning, ergonomics, quality of accessories supplied, etc. Look for my review towards the end of the week. I am not really expecting these to come out on top at there price point but even if they come close they would be a remarkable bargain.

Dennis

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OK! I ordered the Zen Ray 8x43 ED's on Friday afternoon and I got them on Monday. How is that for fast shipping? $360.00 shipped with a lifetime unlimited warranty. They arrived well packed in a quality box similar to most alpha binoculars. Upon opening them I was greeted with a quite offensive odor which since has pretty much dissipated. Let's start with the supplied accessories.
Chinese are not tall people are they? Why would they design such a nice strap that is padded and well made and that you can unsnap from your binoculars if you don't want to use it but make it so LONG and no way to shorten it. Birders like shorter straps. Well you can buy buy a nice after market strap for $10.00 but they need to SHORTEN the strap! You hear me Zen Ray. The case is like a semi-rigid affair with a seperate strap which works pretty well but doesn't leave much room for the LONG strap. I prefer a larger foam padded case like the Zeiss FL's come with. Well let's see a Bighorn case that's another $25.00. The rain covers for the eyepieces fit nice and work well but the "Always On" objective covers have to narrow of a band to secure them and they fit too loose so they will surely fall off in the field. That will be rectified with a set of Bushmaster flip open objective covers from Eagle optics for another $20.00. Problem solved. Well let's get to the binoculars themselves.
They look and are about the same size as Swarovski 8.5x42 EL's. About the same green color except with some black accents. They have some shiny knobs on them that I am sure could alert game and birds to your presence. Overall though pretty quality looking binoculars. Well balanced and fairly light for a 8x43mm with a nice feel to the armor. The twist open eyecups work well but have too much play when they reach their adjustment points. Not a alot of slop like a Nikon Monarch but not rock solid like a Nikon LXL either. It's little things like this which make these binoculars frustrating because they are VERY close to being alpha quality. The focus is smooth but a little hard. It is a big focus knob so you can use two fingers but still just a tad tight. No worse than say my Leica &x42 BN's (which are more ratchety) but a bit tighter than my Nikon LXL's. Not too bad though. Now to the optics.
This is the high point of these binoculars! They are absolutely an alpha view binocular for 1/5 the price. AMAZING! The view is as good as any roof prism I have seen including Zeiss FL's, Leica's, Nikon LXL's you name it. I used my resolution test by reading fine print at a set distance and compared them to my Leica 7x42 BN's, Nikon 8x32 LXL's, and my Nikon 8x32 SE's. They beat the Leica's and the Nikons and were only out resolved by the porro-prism Nikon 8x32 SE's. The Nikon SE's are a little sharper but they are some of the best binoculars you can get for resolution. I compared them all outside and again they have an amazing view. They were better than the Nikon LXL and even slightly better than the Leica's. I experienced no "Black Beaning" when the IPD was properly adjusted.The Nikon SE's again were slightly sharper but their view is different than the Zen Rays with the Zen Rays having a slightly larger FOV. I spent an hour looking close to the sun looking for flare and at black objects against a bright sky comparing CA and I came away liking the view of the Zen Ray over all the other roof prisms and in some ways preferring the view of the Zen Ray over the Nikon SE. The Nikon SE is sharper but the Zen Rays control CA better with their ED glass. The Nikon SE to me is still the ultimate view that can be had but for a roof prism at their price point these are awesome binoculars. The newer ED binoculars like the Nikon ED may be better but I have not had a chance too look through them.
If Zen Ray would give you a better larger foam padded case, a shorter or at least adjustable strap, make the objective covers fit a little tighter, tighten up the tolerances on the twist out eyecups so there was no play in them and loosen up the focus just a bit they would certainly have the "Poor Man's Swarovski" . To tell you the truth I think it is 99% there already. Amazing binoculars especially for the price.

Dennis

Dennis,

If weather permits, it would be interesting to hear how the focus mechanism deals with cold temperatures. The very similar Hawke we have some experience with here in Finland tends to get very stiff in cold, although how stiff and at what temperature seems to vary somewhat unit to unit. One sample I tried was almost unfocusable at zero fahrenheit, while another showed almost no change from room temperature on a normal cold winter day (24 degrees fahrenheit). I suspect the culprit is the type (and quantity) of grease used for the focus mechanism, and since changing the lubrication ought to be a relatively simple and cheap adjustment to the manufacturing process, this is one area where plenty of feedback to the importers/factory could make a difference relatively quickly.

Kimmo

kabsetz said:

Dennis,

If weather permits, it would be interesting to hear how the focus mechanism deals with cold temperatures. The very similar Hawke we have some experience with here in Finland tends to get very stiff in cold, although how stiff and at what temperature seems to vary somewhat unit to unit. One sample I tried was almost unfocusable at zero fahrenheit, while another showed almost no change from room temperature on a normal cold winter day (24 degrees fahrenheit). I suspect the culprit is the type (and quantity) of grease used for the focus mechanism, and since changing the lubrication ought to be a relatively simple and cheap adjustment to the manufacturing process, this is one area where plenty of feedback to the importers/factory could make a difference relatively quickly.



Kimmo

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I will try to test the focus mechanism in cold temperatures if it ever get's cold here again! It has been 70 degrees every day. The focus is already a little hard so I could imagine that being a problem if it gets any stiiffer when the temperature drops. The grease and stiffness of the focus at sub-zero temperatures could be one area they overlooked.

Dennis

In Florida, I doubt that I would have the stiff focus problem??

You guys are killing me..now I have to get these...:-C

We wait now for some Northern Chinese ED binoculars. They don't heat buildings much there, so the focus knob would have to work right at the assembly line.

rjwims said:

In Florida, I doubt that I would have the stiff focus problem??

You guys are killing me..now I have to get these...:-C

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No stiff focus in Texas either. Other than not having a spare $360 in the recreation fund (unfortunately, a real problem for a growing number of folks in these parts), I can think of no reason not to get one.

Tero said:

We wait now for some Northern Chinese ED binoculars. They don't heat buildings much there, so the focus knob would have to work right at the assembly line.

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Well..I broke down and ordered them ...I have some Chinese blood in me, so maybe they won't feel quite so stiff...:-O

I just hope they come without the spontaneous combustion thingie..:-C

I can comment on the focus wheel & cold weather - in Texas! First, I have both the Promaster & the Zen ED and the focus wheel on the Zen is almost loose in comparison to the Promaster. That being said, I was at Tyler State park when a cold front blew in and it dropped a good 20 degrees fairly quickly (down into the high 30's) and the focus wheel on the Zen tightened up to the point where I would have sworn that I was holding the PM. I was really surprised at how hard it became to focus. It is workable, but the difference is obvious. I have had an issue with the eye cups as well, especially the left. My Promaster 8x (that got sent back) had a huge issue with the left eye cup twisting up also. Never had that problem before with my EO Rangers (the focus wheel on the Zen turns like my Ranger,which I thought was pretty fast and smooth).
Dennis, you mentioned getting a Bighorn case for the Zens. Is that a brand name of a company that makes cases? I ask, because when I google it, I get every thing but bin cases!! Don't get the Snugrug cases - neither the PMs or the Zen really fit.

My Promaster 8x (that got sent back) had a huge issue with the left eye cup twisting up also. Never had that problem before...

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The customer is the new quality control. We should get paid for it. 15 dollars an hour?