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Spurn, a day of nice folk and t*****s.

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Old Sunday 29th September 2013, 20:39   #1
Deseo
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Spurn, a day of nice folk and t*****s.

Had a day trip to Spurn yesterday (28th Sep). I have had better days birding (in my garden) All day got only 3 decent birds. Little Stint was lovely to see from canal hide, a brief Pied Fly in the churchyard and after a day searching one of the Yellow Browed Warblers in the canal hedges. Also nice to see my first two Redwing of the Winter.
The day will be remembered more though for the vast difference in the type of people we met this day. The genuinely nice ones like the old chap I showed the YBW to who were over the moon and who passed on their enthusiasm and love of birding to others around them letting people look through their scope, another old chap who shook my hand for pointing out the same bird, the people who made room for us in a very crowded hide, the people who stood and talked to us in the churchyard. And then the opposite end of the niceness scale. The bloke in the canal hide who after seeing the Stint all he wanted got on his phone to his mate organising his next trip with "Hang on I'll put you on speakerphone" and make as much noise as I can so the Stint comes nowhere near the hide. Ever heard of hide etiquette mate? Or the other dude in the seawatching hide with his stupid hat who because he had obviously spent many hundred hours seawatching and knew every bird out at sea but was too brilliant and important to impart any of his knowledge on anyone as unworthy as me just sat and totally ignored anything I said to or asked him whilst at the same time sneering out the window to his equally important mates at how crap we were at seawatching. (Luckily I only found this out after I left or he and his scope would have been floating in the North Sea)
I guess that just like in all walks of life there are nice people and there are t*****s and thank god that the nice ones outnumber the t*****s.
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Old Monday 30th September 2013, 08:45   #2
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And then the opposite end of the niceness scale. The bloke in the canal hide who after seeing the Stint all he wanted got on his phone to his mate organising his next trip with "Hang on I'll put you on speakerphone" and make as much noise as I can so the Stint comes nowhere near the hide. Ever heard of hide etiquette mate? Or the other dude in the seawatching hide with his stupid hat who because he had obviously spent many hundred hours seawatching and knew every bird out at sea but was too brilliant and important to impart any of his knowledge on anyone as unworthy as me just sat and totally ignored anything I said to or asked him whilst at the same time sneering out the window to his equally important mates at how crap we were at seawatching. (Luckily I only found this out after I left or he and his scope would have been floating in the North Sea)
I guess that just like in all walks of life there are nice people and there are t*****s and thank god that the nice ones outnumber the t*****s.
I don't understand why some people behave like that. The only explanation I can offer is mental illness.
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Old Sunday 6th October 2013, 14:52   #3
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It's sad ins't it when you meet up with such ijits in hydes. I once took my grandson birding and he loved it but one old guy sat in the corner sneering and shaking his head because Kile (yes, the spelling is correct 0- or at least how his mum wanted spelt), was an excited eight year old. Two years later and he's still interested and expects to go birding every time he comes to spend with me and gran. Of corse we take him, who wouldn't? Maybe the miserable old sod in that hide?
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Old Sunday 6th October 2013, 16:50   #4
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It's sad ins't it when you meet up with such ijits in hydes. I once took my grandson birding and he loved it but one old guy sat in the corner sneering and shaking his head because Kile (yes, the spelling is correct 0- or at least how his mum wanted spelt), was an excited eight year old. Two years later and he's still interested and expects to go birding every time he comes to spend with me and gran. Of corse we take him, who wouldn't? Maybe the miserable old sod in that hide?
Some people don't like kids, I know I don't. Great that he's interested, but don't expect everyone to enjoy his company as much as you.
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Old Sunday 6th October 2013, 17:10   #5
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Some people don't like kids, I know I don't. Great that he's interested, but don't expect everyone to enjoy his company as much as you.
Why don't you emigrate to Vulgaria and go birding with Baron Bomburst
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Old Sunday 6th October 2013, 21:01   #6
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Some people don't like kids, I know I don't. Great that he's interested, but don't expect everyone to enjoy his company as much as you.
Did you have an unhappy childhood?
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Old Sunday 6th October 2013, 21:11   #7
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Did you have an unhappy childhood?
Amazing how often I get that, perhaps I am the living proof that you don't need an unhappy childhood to dislike children?
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Old Sunday 6th October 2013, 21:24   #8
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Some people don't like kids, I know I don't. Great that he's interested, but don't expect everyone to enjoy his company as much as you.
Must say as a father of a 2 year old and a 7 year old I much prefer their company to quite a few adults I meet.......they're people....not "kids".

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Old Sunday 6th October 2013, 21:29   #9
Sangahyando
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Amazing how often I get that, perhaps I am the living proof that you don't need an unhappy childhood to dislike children?
Well, as long as that dislike doesn't include your own children, you're free to dislike anyone you want to. It's just that expressing a dislike publicly, like in the situation(s) described above, is antisocial. People need to cut youngsters some slack, as long as they're reasonably well behaved. They are still learning after all, and administering "lessons" by being condescending, or unfriendly in some other way without a very good reason, will do a lot of harm and absolutely no good. Winning over more people, regardless of age, is very important for conservation. Which is why we don't need birders who behave in a rude or arrogant way.
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 05:45   #10
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Some people don't like kids, I know I don't. Great that he's interested, but don't expect everyone to enjoy his company as much as you.
I don't see a problem with Trystan's post; it's not antisocial, it's just how he feels.

In these Politically Correct times everybody seems to pretend to be "nice" and "love" everybody else; that's bulls**t.

The little old lady who has other people's kids kicking a ball against her wall doesn't think; "Aww, ain't that sweet". The person in the Doctors waiting room with a terrible headache, doesn't think the kids running back and forth screaming are little angels; even though the parents think they are. Or the "kids" trying to shoot the Sparrows with an Air Pistol; they're not "nice" either.

So stop kidding yourselves, we don't live in a massive Commune

(Oh, and I'm a Grandfather; so I don't dislike kids... well, not if they're related to me )
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 05:56   #11
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Not everyone likes kids, I can fully accept that, though clearly they have as much right to be present as anyone.

Regards the OP, I very much dislike the aloofness of some birders that also comes across on this site I find distasteful. There is often a kind of backhanded, underhand sniping when you give a view, perhaps about a birds identity, because you are inferior birding wise.
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 07:44   #12
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Amazing how often I get that, perhaps I am the living proof that you don't need an unhappy childhood to dislike children?
Well, the thing is, you were a child once! and presumably your happy childhood was partly a result of people not disliking you.. Just comes across as stereotyping, and selfish.

But what do I know. Maybe I'm just another troll on here looking for a response and attention seeking.
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 09:40   #13
Trystan
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Well, as long as that dislike doesn't include your own children, you're free to dislike anyone you want to. It's just that expressing a dislike publicly, like in the situation(s) described above, is antisocial. People need to cut youngsters some slack, as long as they're reasonably well behaved. They are still learning after all, and administering "lessons" by being condescending, or unfriendly in some other way without a very good reason, will do a lot of harm and absolutely no good. Winning over more people, regardless of age, is very important for conservation. Which is why we don't need birders who behave in a rude or arrogant way.
I think my point is that it works both ways. If I go to a restaurant, the cinema, a nature reserve, for example, then I appreciate a certain type of behaviour and in the case of (young) children, a certain amount of parental control but as often as not, this doesn't happen and this shows a lack of respect for the people who have to be subjected to it.

I wouldn't do what the guy described in the hide did unless the child was being badly behaved, but I sympathise with his frustration.
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 09:51   #14
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Well, the thing is, you were a child once!
Thanks for pointing that out

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and presumably your happy childhood was partly a result of people not disliking you..
Although I'm sure some people did dislike me, and some people put me straight if my behaviour was inappropriate, something which seems to be out of fashion in today's society


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Just comes across as stereotyping, and selfish.
Labelling someone who doesn't like children as selfish would be far more like stereotyping in my view.
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 10:37   #15
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That's just how it comes across, to me anyway.. It might be totally off the mark.

like I said, what do I know. I got nothing else to add on this subject to be honest, you won't get pages of argument and smart counter-arguments from me unfortunately. It just ain't my thing!
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 10:55   #16
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Can I say that I agree with Trystan but I also sympathise with our OP Deseo as well.

I used to take my young children into hides but I like to think that I respected those who obviously wouldn't appreciate kids making noise and running amok. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting that this is not the case in this example but it is something I see more and more. Children who's parents believe that their offspring have the right and freedom to do as they like and find it difficult and unreasonable to teach and impose some respect.

Example from yesterday. Made the mistake of thinking I might be able to see and photograph some birds at our local park. Being the weekend, I knew the chances would be slim given all of the dog walkers and day-trippers enjoying the sun. I happened to fall upon a Grey Heron at silly close range which others were watching respectfully and not allowing their dogs to flush the bird. I took a few quick photgraphs before a young couple, knowing that I and others were watching the Heron, decided to let their 2yr old toddler run to the bird - in fact they encouraged such action. Now the reaction I got when I suggested that their action had been disrespectful was a predictable one of "you don't own this park" and "we can don't whatever we like". I left realising I was wasting my time but considered how this small child was probably likely to also grow up not knowing right from wrong.

Getting back to the OP, yes there are some very grumpy and unsociable birders out there who don't wish to engage with those of less experiance who might invade their space. This is a shame but rarely in life would everyone live up to mine or anyone else's expectations. On the other hand, I would personally encourage young and novice birders as long as they are respectful to their environment and me. I don't like parents )or in some cases teachers) who bring unruly children into bird hides or onto reserves and don't attempt to administer control though. :-)
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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 19:23   #17
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I think my point is that it works both ways. If I go to a restaurant, the cinema, a nature reserve, for example, then I appreciate a certain type of behaviour and in the case of (young) children, a certain amount of parental control but as often as not, this doesn't happen and this shows a lack of respect for the people who have to be subjected to it.
That's it exactly! I chose not to have children when I was 10 years old (45 now and never regretted it one bit) as I believed then that the planet was overpopulated and didn't need me adding my bit to the problem. But I don't dislike well behaved or polite bairns and will go out of my way to show them what's about and let them look through my scope etc....anything to try to get them interested in nature Ok, so some might be a touch boisterous and loud at times with excitement when you show them stuff but that's just young 'uns The thing that boils me is the attitude of some parents.....the ones who don't believe in discipline or the word No! If you so much as DARE to look disapprovingly at their precious angelic child who is running around and screaming and shouting you are virtually accused of being a child-hating monster

I had to smile to myself at the original post though.....sounds like SO many days out I've had Lots of really lovely nice birders who enjoy the birds for what they are and not how rare they are....and then the miserable buggers who must REALLY hate it when I smile sweetly at them and DARE to ask advice on a bird's id Often wonder WHY they bother to go birding if it obviously makes them so miserable I'm a grumpy old bat most of the time but love my time outdoors and become sweetness personified....unless you're a misery guts in which case I refuse to be cowed or put in my place
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Old Wednesday 9th October 2013, 18:18   #18
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''I'm a grumpy old bat most of the time''

Oh, I wouldn't have said that your grumpy most of the time Gill!

As for manners in hides.........Most young people in hides I've come across cause little to no problem and are there either because they are interested or because some significant adult is attempting to interest them and I applaud that on both counts. Sadly we don't see enough of such interest. I don't especially like every young person of course, although the ones I don't like are not usually using hides (at least not at the time of day I'm there). I've come across a few more mature souls that I would prefer to avoid, either in hides or outside of them.
It costs nowt to show good manners what ever your age.
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Old Wednesday 9th October 2013, 18:59   #19
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I have to agree with Gill. There is a world of difference between kids who are "I'm-going-to-wet-myself-I'm-so-excited" being in hides ( or elsewhere ) and the untamed little ba**ards whos parents believe they can do no wrong. As for adults - sitting close to them, I mean reeeeeeeealy close, and asking inane questions usually gets rid of them.

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Old Thursday 10th October 2013, 06:13   #20
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I took my niece out birding about 4 months ago and had a similar problem with someone ignoring me I must of asked about 4 questions of this gentleman and never got a reply then my niece just came out with it "Ade who must be deaf or who doesn't know a lot about birds" the look on the gentleman's face was brilliant I wish I'D thought of it
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Old Thursday 10th October 2013, 06:21   #21
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That's it exactly! I chose not to have children when I was 10 years old (45 now and never regretted it one bit) as I believed then that the planet was overpopulated and didn't need me adding my bit to the problem. But I don't dislike well behaved or polite bairns and will go out of my way to show them what's about and let them look through my scope etc....anything to try to get them interested in nature Ok, so some might be a touch boisterous and loud at times with excitement when you show them stuff but that's just young 'uns The thing that boils me is the attitude of some parents.....the ones who don't believe in discipline or the word No! If you so much as DARE to look disapprovingly at their precious angelic child who is running around and screaming and shouting you are virtually accused of being a child-hating monster
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Old Thursday 10th October 2013, 16:12   #22
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I love to see kids getting enthused about nature, and don't really care if they're a bit loud or overenthusiastic while they're doing so. The problem is only when parents rock up to hides to selfishly indulge their hobby and ignore their kids misbehaving at the other end. But it's a joy to watch parents taking their kids to nature reserves and trying to get them interested.

I'm a big believer in encouraging the next generation to get involved - it's piquing their interest when young that means we have the birders and conservationists of the future, which is more important than keeping your kids away from nature reserves in case some grumpy old birders, who often do all their birding at flagship nature reserves and then complain when there are other people around, get mardy about the fact a child is somewhere nearby.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2013, 18:43   #23
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I guess I'm lucky that my 2 are really enthusiastic about wildlife & enjoy being outdoors. OK, I wouldn't make my daughter sit for hours on end in a hide as she doesn't have that sort of attention span.

My son is even contemplating a future career in wildlife film making/photography/presenting!!
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Old Saturday 12th October 2013, 19:55   #24
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When it comes to kids in hides, I only like it when there's an oven in there so I can slow roast them, saves me having to pack lunch. ;-)

Truthfully - if they are reasonably well behaved then I've no problem with it. As has been said by others - I loathe the the parent who lets their kids run riot, not the kid as it is not their fault - they have not been taught anything better to do.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2013, 09:49   #25
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Its an interesting topic. Here in North Queensland hides are exceptionally rare (I only visit two sites with hides and one of those is shut) and so majority of birding is done out and about. I have three children (11,8 &5) and initially when walking through the rainforest I was constantly shushing them in case they scared the birds more than other birders as I rarely see anyone else put and about. After a couple of months doing this and then comparing what I see when the children aren't with me I found no difference - the birds don't seem to be bothered at all, some in fact find the noise interesting and come and investigate the children ( a male Victorias Riflebird virtually landed on my 5 year olds head) the only person getting stressed and bothered by it was me - so now I don't worry the kids have a great time experiencing nature and I see just as much as before with no stress
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