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Swarovski 8x32EL - Calling all owners! (1 Viewer)

Dialyt

The Definitive Binocular
I am interested in replacing my binoculars for one of the top three 8x32mm models.

Having discounted the Leica Ultravid 8x32BR due to eye relief issues, and the unavailability of Leica Trinovid 8x32BNs, I am left with the Zeiss 8x32FL and the Swarovski 8x32EL.

Can the owners of Swarovski 8x32ELs please stand up?

I want to hear what you think of your binoculars - what you like and dislike about them, and any durability or other concerns. Don't be afraid to be technical!

I'm also interested to learn about Swarovski's easy-clean coating - is this the same concept as Leica's Aqua-Dura and Zeiss' Lotu-Tec? I like the idea of water and dirt repellent lenses. Are Swarovski's lens coatings water repellent too?
 
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Where should I start. Without getting into technical issues, I have to say these are a brillliant pair of bins

Lightweight and so very easy to hold. They feel like they are an extension to my hand. Focusing is a dream. Quick and precise. The handgrip is placed in the very best location on the bins.

I guess because of it not being a large magnification and the light weight feel, you can easily get a sharp, steady look just hand holding. Colors are sharp and true.

I've also been quite successful viewing wildlife in very early morning and at dusk with these bins. I guess you can tell I'm sold on them ;)
 
Where should I start. Without getting into technical issues, I have to say these are a brillliant pair of bins

Lightweight and so very easy to hold. They feel like they are an extension to my hand. Focusing is a dream. Quick and precise. The handgrip is placed in the very best location on the bins.

I guess because of it not being a large magnification and the light weight feel, you can easily get a sharp, steady look just hand holding.

I've also been quite successful viewing wildlife in very early morning and at dusk with these bins. I guess you can tell I'm sold on them ;)

Please do be technical!

It's interesting that you mention the thumb grip. I found the thumb grip on the Leica Ultravid 42BR annoying. I really do object to some binocular designers deciding where my thumbs should go based on some algorithm.

I'll have to check that out, in the hand.

What about the eyecups - are they hard plastic? Are they comfortable?

And can you tell me about the easy-clean coatings?
 
I am interested in replacing my binoculars for one of the top three 8x32mm models.

Having discounted the Leica Ultravid 8x32BR due to eye relief issues, and the unavailability of Leica Trinovid 8x32BNs, I am left with the Zeiss 8x32FL and the Swarovski 8x32EL.

Can the owners of Swarovski 8x32ELs please stand up?

I want to hear what you think of your binoculars - what you like and dislike about them, and any durability or other concerns.

I'm also interested to learn about Swarovski's easy-clean coating - is this the same concept as Leica's Aqua-Dura and Zeiss' Lotu-Tec? I like the idea of water and dirt repellent lenses. Are Swarovski's lens coatings water repellent too?

Greetings, Dialyt ...

Between your two choices, I'd definitely go with the Swarovskis. Let me start by saying that my preferred 32 bin is the 10x32 Leica; also note that I have no eye relief issues. So, when I was choosing an 8x32 model it was as much to round out the "collection" by selecting a bin from one of the other "big three" - swaro and zeiss.

Side by side, the Swarovski is the clear winner for sharpness, resolution and handling. It's one drawback, to me, is a bluish cast to the overall color for objects viewed in the shadows. Most people don't notice this until I bring it to their attention, and then I invariably hear -- "Oh my God, you're absolutely right!". Not quite a deal breaker, but it does bug me somewhat.

I find the Zeiss model to be more color neutral, but suffering from (again for me) serious lens flare when oriented towards bright light sources lying just beyond the image field. I think it may be sharper edge to edge than the Swarovski, but lacking that crisp "snap" in the center that the Swarovski provides. It's a great optic, though, and for eye relief alone it may trump the Swarovski. The flare issue for me is, however, a deal breaker if I were to limit my choice to one chosen pair of bins.

I believe the Leicas to be superior to either (by a hair), when all is considered optically. And as a professional photographer, that has always been my principal and defining requirement. My approach has always been "optics first, everything else can be made to fit". That may not work for others with serious handling and eye relief issues, however, and I can respect that. If that's the case, and in your case, I'd lean towards the Swarovski. I do have the Swarovski 8x32 ELs (in addition to the Zeiss FL in 10x42), and I do love them (just not as much as my Leicas).

Regarding the EasyClean coatings: it is my understanding, reiterated by a sales rep at Eagle Optics, that Swaro's "EasyClean" is the same as Zeiss' "Lotu Tec", is the same as Leica's "Aqua Dura".

Best plan for you - Keep it simple, limit your choices to the two you mentioned, and compare rigorously, side by side, at a shop near you that stocks both.

Best of luck to you,

Robert / Seattle
 
more questions, including one on the new Swaro SLC 8x30

Having just seen KC's post, I'd have to say that her thoughts round out and compliment my point of view quite well. Considered together, I'd think it hard to beat the Swaro's for your choice among the two.

Can you confirm that the Swaro 8x32EL have the thumb grooves as seen on the big ELs?

Are the eyecups hard plastic, and if so, are they comfortable to the eye?

What about the Swaro SLC 8x30? Does anyone have any experience of those? I understand the focus wheel is in an odd place, but is this ok, and can you fit your thumbs between the barrels at minimum IPD?
 
Can you confirm that the Swaro 8x32EL have the thumb grooves as seen on the big ELs?

Are the eyecups hard plastic, and if so, are they comfortable to the eye?

What about the Swaro SLC 8x30? Does anyone have any experience of those? I understand the focus wheel is in an odd place, but is this ok, and can you fit your thumbs between the barrels at minimum IPD?

Thumb grooves, yes.

Eyecups, rubber and comfortable.

Can't speak for the SLC's
 
I should point out to anyone wondering: I live in Ireland. If i want to see the Zeiss and Swarovski models side-by-side, I will most likely have to catch a plain or ferry across to mainland UK.

I think maybe one or the other model might be available for viewing in Dublin, but that's quite far away from me too.
 
Fl-el

Another point is this, one I found elsewhere on the Swaro forum:

An FL-EL may indeed be the ultimate pair of binoculars (if they
bother to correct the ugly concave distortion at the same time).

Is there a significant distortion issue?

Would an FL-EL really make any difference to the optical performance of the existing ELs, given that the Leica HD claim of 3% increase in brightness is hardly discernible?
 
Another point is this, one I found elsewhere on the Swaro forum:



Is there a significant distortion issue?

Would an FL-EL really make any difference to the optical performance of the existing ELs, given that the Leica HD claim of 3% increase in brightness is hardly discernible?


Hey Dialyt,

One could torture themselves with hypotheticals forever. There will always be something more that could be done to improve a given specification on any instrument, but always at a cost to some other parameter of performance. Within the given glass composition and structural design of the EL vs. FLs, you'll simply have to choose your preference. The extra 3% claimed by Leica is both miniscule (irrelevent in the field) and out of question for you owing to stated eye relief issues (one of those pesky "parameters"). Re distortion in any of the 3 alphabins: at the 8x level, I have noticed nothing on that score that would dissuade me from any of them. I think you may be entirely back to "feel and handling", i.e., that which "fits your face and hands".

Cheers,
Robert / Seattle
 
... and the unavailability of Leica Trinovid 8x32BNs

In defense of Leica --- Leica may have issues, but unavailability isn't one of them. If you don't mind used, there are several 8x32 BN's floating around on Ebay right now. They also have new ones on there often enough.

My only complaint about the Trinovid is that it's not bright enough. Swarovski EL is brighter. But in terms of contrast, resolution, clarity and some intangible aspects, the old Trinovid is still very competetive. The view is much more neutral. They are not the best anymore but considering the prices they go for, they are excellent value.
 
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Just a brief point on the thumb grooves: Yes, there are thumb grooves on the 32mm EL's, but compared to those on the 42's they are shallower and have rounded edges. I don't particularly like the grooves on the bigger models for the very reason Dialyt mentions, but I liked the handling (including the grooves) of the smaller EL a great deal.

As I don't own the 8x32 and thus don't have it for immediate reference, I cannot analyze the edge distortion issue. However, keep in mind that the field of view in the 8x32 EL is unusually wide, so it is likely that any (more or less inevitable) distortion would be a little more pronounced simply because most aberrations increase towards the edges and the EL eyepiece shows you field edges that a narrower field would cut off.

I found the overall color cast of the 8x32 EL slightly warm rather than blue, but Robert is specifically talking about shadow areas, and I must try to check this out next time I try out the binocular. It is interesting, though, so may I ask Robert to conduct some kind of "shadow area comparison session" between the EL, the Ultravid (HD) and the Zeiss? Specifically, does there seem to be a worthwhile difference in the amount of color detail one can extract.

Kimmo
 
I've got a pair and think they're great - great view through them. They have a nice field of view and good close focus. I'd agree that they have a slight colour cast (to my eyes Leica give the truest colours), but when out birding I don't notice it at all. All that said I'm now selling mine... but only because I've realised that I prefer a bigger binocular so have now got the 8.5x42 ELs.
 
... It is interesting, though, so may I ask Robert to conduct some kind of "shadow area comparison session" between the EL, the Ultravid (HD) and the Zeiss? Specifically, does there seem to be a worthwhile difference in the amount of color detail one can extract.

Kimmo

Hi Kimmo,

As an example for visual reference, in the shaded wooded corner of my backyard hangs a bird feeder that is best described as "forest green" or "hunter green". The color is rendered faithfully by both the HD (10x32) and the FL (10x42), but it takes on a blue-green or aqua cast when viewed throught the ELs. To my memory, the FL and HD render the colors equally well, but since it is 2AM here in Seattle it will be several more hours before I can verify which is technically more neutral (which I promise to do sometime after sunrise). The blueish cast of the ELs is, however, not in question, but may be a matter of degree and perception by respective viewers. Hope this helps for now.

More soon,

Robert
 
The color is rendered faithfully by both the HD (10x32) and the FL (10x42), but it takes on a blue-green or aqua cast when viewed throught the ELs.
he blueish cast of the ELs is, however, not in question, but may be a matter of degree and perception by respective viewers. Hope this helps for now.
More soon,
Robert


No, the colour is neutral in the Swarovski but has a reddish tint in the Leicas. :flowers:
Well, what I want to convey is the message that colour is the most highly subjective and most fickle of all optical characteristics of binoculars.

Colour is in fact "cooler", more bluish in the ELs but to a minuscule degree that becomes only apparent in a direct comparison against an Ultravid.
I understand colour is a big issue but not so for me.
Colour can change dramatically within minutes. Robert as a photographer will most likely confirm this (I'd be very surprised if not).
Colours are very different at noon when the sun is glaring than a few hours before or later due to the shift in the sun's height the sky.
Moving up a mountain by several hundred meters gives different colours than you'll have a low altitude.

The geometry of the image remains, though.
Which brings me to the issue of distorsion for which birdwatchers don't normally seem to care.
I do not like the concave distorsion that is rather prominent in the Swarovskis as well as in the Leicas! Zeiss binoculars are significantly better in this respect.
Of course their shabby looks and the lack of appeal of the housings is a disgrace.
As regards handling there is nothing like the Swarovskis. The EL and the Habicht 8x30 are the handiest, most pleasant to operate binoculars.

if I were in this race, I'd have a look at this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ndexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

It will presumably give the virtues of the legendary Swarovski optics but will at the same time much cheaper and - another often neglected optical aspect - give much better spatial resolution than any of the much more expensive roof prism models.

Leaving you with a modest personal (but wonderfully spatial) view,
Thomas
 
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I found the thumb grip on the Leica Ultravid 42BR annoying.

Aren't they?
Yes, they are not only useless but irritating.
Try the BL version. It is much, much better in terms of grip. The barrels are sleaker and perfect for middle-sized hands.

The Swarovski thumb grooves are totally different. They are shallow and wide. They don't convey a feeling of being forced into position but feel rather "natural".


Please do be technical!

And can you tell me about the easy-clean coatings?

Same method everywhere. Companies just have to invent new labels because
- names are usually protected by copy-right, and each company has to file a seperate patent application (or get a licence)
- it does not sound all to sophisticated if you adopt a competitor's tag and claim: Now we have it, too (2 yrs later than the rest of the bunch).

It's a difficult choice and in the end it will be you, alone with your money purse in the shop.

Best,
Tom
 
Thomas makes a very valid comment on colour. Eyes are different and what one person sees another may not.

Over the past 6 mths I looked a number of times at various Zeiss, Swaro and Leica models before reaching a decision. I also looked at a couple of Nikons.

I noticed slight variations with all the models, but what I would say is that if there was only a choice of one, I would have been very happy with any of them. Differences in colour, fringing, focussing etc were not significant for me to discount any. For me, this meant that ergonomics, eye relief and price became important considerations. I only wear glasses at the moment for reading but realise that this will probably change in the future.

Basically, I think you would be happy with either.
 
Can you confirm that the Swaro 8x32EL have the thumb grooves as seen on the big ELs?

Yes, but the feel is very different. The barrels of the 42 are much wider. Too thick for me to like it. The space in between the barrels is quite narrow so much thumbs kept banging into each other.
No problem on the 32. Barrels are slimmer giving a better grip, and there is more space for the thumbs to go on a walk by themselves.
Very nice!

Are the eyecups hard plastic, and if so, are they comfortable to the eye?

The eyecups can be replaced by an alternative, winged version that shield stray light. Have not tried them, though. No other company has this, as far as I know.


What about the Swaro SLC 8x30? Does anyone have any experience of those? I understand the focus wheel is in an odd place, but is this ok, and can you fit your thumbs between the barrels at minimum IPD?

Very nice instruments. Tried the version before the current one. Much more comfortable to hold than the much more expensive L or Z.
Thumbs may not fit in between the barrels at minimum ipd but the grooves are very nice indeed.
The focussing at the rear end may look odd but I found it absolutely no problem to get used to within minutes. In fact focussing farther away from the eyes may in the long run be more comfortable than rubbing eyebrows all the time (think of gloves in winter!).

Optically very similar to the EL, of course. But the ELs are discernably brighter than the SLC - or so it seems to me. Maybe there is something going on on the inside that Swarovski does not tell anything about in their brochures.

You see, I am in the same lenghty, time-consuming, painful process of making up my mind how to distribute hard-earned coins.
Cheers, Thomas
 
What about the Swaro SLC 8x30? Does anyone have any experience of those? I understand the focus wheel is in an odd place, but is this ok, and can you fit your thumbs between the barrels at minimum IPD?
I liked the sound of the SLC 8x30 but when I tried a pair I found that the focus wheel was a bit stiff and, as it was at the 'wrong' end, the binoculars were wobbling round so much when I focussed that, for me, they were unusable. The Nikon HG, on the other hand, had silky smooth focussing, which I thought was superb.

I, too, have been looking at the high end 8x30(ish) binoculars and am getting more and more confused. I thought there would be one model which stood out from the others but that doesn't seem to be the case. They all seem to have points for and against.

Ron
 
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