Originally Posted by opisska
But we are the West. It's the core of the discussion, what we, as the West, should do now. And I am saying that proposing that we put our desire to not be infringed on our civil rights ahead of the future of the elderly is immoral, that's really all.
You could say that is immoral - but is it less immoral than having the elderly die en masse in overwhelmed hospital systems? This is not about "our desire" to not be infringed on "our civil" rights - if you read my post, and it's sure as heck not just about the West. If the economy is st*ffed permanently, if a mass transfer of wealth and destruction of economic value takes place - all to working age people whose health would it seems be largely unaffected - then the elderly and vulnerable will be adversely impacted economically anyway, which will definitely negatively impact their standard of living, care, and health.
Really - health wise - what is the alternative ? I think it is too optimistic (naive even) to think this will be over quickly with the current strategy. My bet is that elderly people will have their normal freedoms curtailed every bit as long, or even longer under the current strategy, compared to any 'middle way'. They will also be massively poorer. Prices of essentials here (food, cleaning materials etc) have gone up by 25% minimum. Toilet paper can sell for $3 a roll. Any investment income received and portfolio values have dropped by 1/3 minimum. Pensioners are mostly excluded here from any additional financial assistance being rolled out.
Does anyone honestly think the world can track every infected person? - when a good portion of them are completely asymptomatic, or have easily ignored mild symptoms. I have heard of cases of testing kits out of China that were only 30% accurate, and the amount of testing is woefully inadequate and flawed. We are going to see wave after wave in the so called ongoing 'rollercoaster'. 'Herd immunity' among largely unaffected people will take longer with the current strategy. I even read today that attempts are being made to make some sort of serums or something from recovered people.
Scotty from Marketing (our excuse for a PM) let thousands and thousands of US travellers into the country days before travel was restricted, he also let several thousand people disembark from a cruise ship even though some were under test - now over ~50 or whatever of those people have tested positive and the thousands they were in contact with have been moving freely about the community.
I just don't see any alternative to quarantining the elderly. Look what is happening in Italy even with quite stringent distancing and lockdown. This does not mean 'isolation' socially. In some cultures (many Indigenous ones) - elders are revered even moreso than the multigenerational cultures (Italian, Indian, etc) , let alone the West. They are the living font of knowledge, lore, and wisdom, and as such are culturally irreplaceable (not that anyone's elderly relatives aren't) .....
We really need to consider the wider picture here.