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How to cope with coronavirus

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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 23:30   #1
fugl
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How to cope with coronavirus

Was emailed the link to this article the other day and wonder how seriously to take it. The author’s (evidently) uncredentialed in the relevant disciplines and the article’s been roundly attacked in the “comments” section by people who appear to know what they’re talking about. Anyway, here it is for anyone who wants to read it and perhaps comment on it here. . ..

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-f4d3d9cd99ca
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 23:49   #2
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The virus may be more effectively managed by a very aggressive isolation/lockdown policy, but that leaves the people involved destitute unless they have the resources to ride out their confinement.
In the USA most families have minimal savings and would not be able to pay either their rent or their grocery bills if housebound for a month. Perhaps a national emergency fund to prevent a social collapse?
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 00:29   #3
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Perhaps a national emergency fund to prevent a social collapse?
Indeed, at least something like that. If the situation is as dire as he paints it, it's hard to imagine any other solution. But is it as dire as he paints it??
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 07:21   #4
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It is dire. I lack the expertise to comment on his number magic, but even if that's wrong, it shouldn't distract us from facts that are not, namely, Italy. There is no wiggle room for theories about how the situation may not be catastrophic, because there is a direct example how dangerous the virus is in a western society. The whole Italian disaster comes from a single case probably. Can your country prevent every single case from spreading using the measures in place now? I guess thr answer is no for almost any country.

Speaking of the US, I have a strong suspicion that it will be the worst victim overall The lack of general paid sick leave and access to medical care, coupled with the open incompetence of the government shown far, and its preference for helping the stock market instead of the people, is a perfect recipe for disaster. One thing is great though, the travel van with europe - it won't help the US in the slightest at this point, but it's pretty good for us :)
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 08:00   #5
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Agree the article is good and makes perfect sense on the whole (no posturing or political play as you would seemingly get from US health officials/politicans for example!) and fits the facts out there. The numbers make sense to me.

A few general thoughts -

Obviously there can be huge problems with lockdown - US probably the worse place to be, true.

I imagine setting up temporary ICUs would make sense, although don't know how that could be done.

More of an obsession with cleanliness and efficiency in E Asia. Better personal hygiene and other culture differences helping slow the spread/allow lockdown to be more effective?

Another factor on the China/East Asia situation. Political situation with monitoring and policy in China will have helped with the lockdown (one time where the government surveillance etc possibly a good thing)


On a personal level as an individual - if you're in the vulnerable demographic one argument would be to get the coronavirus asap whilst healthcare facilities can cope!!!

Otherwise the whole thing is to delay the process so no spike and health facilities can 'cope' until a vaccine can be produced.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 08:21   #6
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Have people (like Dantheman) who perpetuate this idea of "better hygiene and cleanliness" ever been to Asia? I have never been to China proper, but in Korea, Japan or SE Asia, many people will happily cough all over you - while others will use masks when sick. It's just very uneven and I think the general tendency is to go for quick solution like the mask while not wanting to change general habits deeply. I also suspect that the idea of asians being cleaner comes from the fact they don't smell as much as we do, but that's genetics, not showering...

Not that it's actually related to the problems we have now, it is just continually bugging me that people say this :)
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 08:25   #7
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Originally Posted by opisska View Post
Have people (like Dantheman) who perpetuate this idea of "better hygiene and cleanliness" ever been to Asia? I have never been to China proper, but in Korea, Japan or SE Asia, many people will happily cough all over you - while others will use masks when sick. It's just very uneven and I think the general tendency is to go for quick solution like the mask while not wanting to change general habits deeply. I also suspect that the idea of asians being cleaner comes from the fact they don't smell as much as we do, but that's genetics, not showering...

Not that it's actually related to the problems we have now, it is just continually bugging me that people say this :)
Aha. Got me there.

I'm going on what my partner tells me who is (seemingly!) obsessed with watching youtube videos from Japan (and possibly some Korean). She's pretty OCD eg cleaning surfaces so I assumed there must be something in it ...


Edit - I see I included a '?' in my post above in relevant section.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 10:22   #8
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Much ado about nothing

With the exponential true rates of infection and six degrees of separation everybody in the world will get it in very short order (if you're not already sitting there with it).

I trialed the illness just to see what all the hubabaloo was about. A mildly intense fever and a couple of days rest with some good nutritious food and plenty of clean water will see it through. Stay clear of hospitals - those places will kill ya.

The biggest threat is State control of liberty and destruction of economic activity and livelihood.

Ask yourself - why this crisis at this time ? ..... follow the money

Dodge any vaccines 'they' come out with .......

Over here a roll of toilet paper is harder to come by than an honest politician ! maybe this is why ?

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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 10:27   #9
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Much ado about nothing

With the exponential true rates of infection and six degrees of separation everybody in the world will get it in very short order (if you're not already sitting there with it).

I trialed the illness just to see what all the hubabaloo was about. A mildly intense fever and a couple of days rest with some good nutritious food and plenty of clean water will see it through. Stay clear of hospitals - those places will kill ya.

The biggest threat is State control of liberty and destruction of economic activity and livelihood.

Ask yourself - why this crisis at this time ? ..... follow the money

Dodge any vaccines 'they' come out with .......

Over here a roll of toilet paper is harder to come by than an honest politician ! maybe this is why ?

Attachment 720833





Chosun
How the hell you "trial the illness"? You are either just spouting nonsense or, in the absurd posibillity that you managed to get the disease on purpose, possibly broke the law.

Normally, you brand of nonsense is mildly amusing, but what you say here is actively dangerous. Almost every sentence of your post contains a blatant stupid idea that, if people accept it, may lead to more deaths. This is really the time for people like you to shut the **** up.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 11:29   #10
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Originally Posted by opisska View Post
How the hell you "trial the illness"? You are either just spouting nonsense or, in the absurd posibillity that you managed to get the disease on purpose, possibly broke the law.

Normally, you brand of nonsense is mildly amusing, but what you say here is actively dangerous. Almost every sentence of your post contains a blatant stupid idea that, if people accept it, may lead to more deaths. This is really the time for people like you to shut the **** up.
The game you're a puppet of is called divide and conquer - Problem - Solution - Control - and unfortunately you're blithely playing your role to a T right on Q .......





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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 11:37   #11
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Originally Posted by opisska View Post
How the hell you "trial the illness"? You are either just spouting nonsense or, in the absurd posibillity that you managed to get the disease on purpose, possibly broke the law.

Normally, you brand of nonsense is mildly amusing, but what you say here is actively dangerous. Almost every sentence of your post contains a blatant stupid idea that, if people accept it, may lead to more deaths. This is really the time for people like you to shut the **** up.
I 'trialled' the illness by allowing myself to experience it - normally it could not possibly enter my vibrational field. I come in to contact daily with a diverse melting pot of people from all over the world who in turn are in contact with people travelling hither and fro - thus the mechanics are very straightforward since transmission can take place while people are completely symptomless ......

Every [year] ~0.8% of the global population dies ..... let that sink in as long as needed ......





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Last edited by Chosun Juan : Thursday 12th March 2020 at 13:20. Reason: whoops - figure is pa
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 11:54   #12
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
I 'trialled' the illness by allowing myself to experience it - normally it could not possibly enter my vibrational field. I come in to contact daily with a diverse melting pot of people from all over the world who in turn are in contact with people travelling hither and fro - thus the mechanics are very straightforward since transmission can take place while people are completely symptomless ......

Every day ~0.8% of the global population dies ..... let that sink in as long as needed ......





Chosun

No you didn't. You would also have no way to know whether you did or not. Also, there is no such thing as a vibrational field. If 0.8% of the global population died every day, we would all be dead in half a year.

The only think one can let "sink in" here is how much nonsense do you constantly get away with posting here. I have reported your first post to the moderators. If they are not willing to do anything about your nonsense, I am leaving this forum for good.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 12:01   #13
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Originally Posted by opisska View Post
No you didn't. You would also have no way to know whether you did or not. Also, there is no such thing as a vibrational field. If 0.8% of the global population died every day, we would all be dead in half a year.

The only think one can let "sink in" here is how much nonsense do you constantly get away with posting here. I have reported your first post to the moderators. If they are not willing to do anything about your nonsense, I am leaving this forum for good.
I wouldna worry about Chosun Juan - everything is a conspiracy

Probably better to have misinformation and rationally discuss it than sweep under the carpet?

(This is Ruffled Feathers anyway of course)
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 13:18   #14
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Originally Posted by opisska View Post
No you didn't. You would also have no way to know whether you did or not. Also, there is no such thing as a vibrational field. If 0.8% of the global population died every day, we would all be dead in half a year.

The only think one can let "sink in" here is how much nonsense do you constantly get away with posting here. I have reported your first post to the moderators. If they are not willing to do anything about your nonsense, I am leaving this forum for good.
Excuse me ?!

How would you know what I experience or not.
If you say there is no such thing as a vibrational field then that will be your reality .... it doesn't mean that other people are not experiencing creating such a reality.

Reported the post on what basis ? - that someone else experiences a different reality to you ? That you are unable (or limited by your own definition) to comprehend the magnitude of that reality ? I have not been offensive in any way - unlike your "****" post ......

If anyone's post needs reporting for violation of forum rules it is yours - but I shan't bother myself ....




Chosun


ps. Ammended previous post to reflect yearly figure.

Last edited by Chosun Juan : Thursday 12th March 2020 at 13:25.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 13:22   #15
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Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
I wouldna worry about Chosun Juan - everything is a conspiracy

Probably better to have misinformation and rationally discuss it than sweep under the carpet?

(This is Ruffled Feathers anyway of course)
Dan - I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but to understand the big picture it helps to have a certain working knowledge on the creation of reality .......




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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 13:28   #16
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Excuse me ?!

How would you know what I experience or not.
If you say there is no such thing as a vibrational field then that will be your reality .... it doesn't mean that other people are not experiencing creating such a reality.

Reported the post on what basis ? - that someone else experiences a different reality to you ? That you are unable (or limited by your own definition) to comprehend the magnitude of that reality ? I have not been offensive in any way - unlike your "****" post ......




Chosun


ps. Ammended previous post to reflect yearly figure.
There is only one reality. The one described by science. The rest is just self-delusion of people who refuse to accept that not every fairy tale they are able to conjure is automatically true.

If you want to think that your esoteric nonsense is how the world actually works, then be my guest. But if you spread these absurdities in a public space, if you start telling other people to do things that may actually endanger the public and cause suffering and even death, then I am sorry but that's where I draw the line. I don't give a shit if that hurts your precious feelings.

Telling people false statements about a serious disease, telling them to not go to hospital and to avoid vaccinations should be criminally punished as attempted manslaughter. Get lost.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 13:48   #17
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There is only one reality. The one described by science. The rest is just self-delusion of people who refuse to accept that not every fairy tale they are able to conjure is automatically true.

If you want to think that your esoteric nonsense is how the world actually works, then be my guest. But if you spread these absurdities in a public space, if you start telling other people to do things that may actually endanger the public and cause suffering and even death, then I am sorry but that's where I draw the line. I don't give a shit if that hurts your precious feelings.

Telling people false statements about a serious disease, telling them to not go to hospital and to avoid vaccinations should be criminally punished as attempted manslaughter. Get lost.
Your post devolves to personally offensive language that reveals who you truly are - all on fugl's thread when he has just found a degree of common humanity with litebeam on another thread - give the guy a break ......

I have not given any 'dangerous' advice as you erroneously miscomprehend. Hospitals are full of sick people - it's just common sense to avoid them. The virus is utterly harmless to the vast majority of people as the statistics reveal. Unless you are an expert Virologist, not to mention the highly contentious field of Vaccinations, I'll choose my own free thinking independent counsel thanks very much.





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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 14:05   #18
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Your post devolves to personally offensive language that reveals who you truly are - all on fugl's thread when he has just found a degree of common humanity with litebeam on another thread - give the guy a break ......

I have not given any 'dangerous' advice as you erroneously miscomprehend. Hospitals are full of sick people - it's just common sense to avoid them. The virus is utterly harmless to the vast majority of people as the statistics reveal. Unless you are an expert Virologist, not to mention the highly contentious field of Vaccinations, I'll choose my own free thinking independent counsel thanks very much.

Chosun
The virus is NOT harmless to "the vast majority of people". Would it be so hard to educate yourself with some basic facts before you start acting all clever online? Depending on the location (thus depending on the testing and population age structure) the of infected people that need at least supplemental oxygen at some point during the disease seems to reach 10 percent, somewhere even more. Considering that in Italy the capacity is already exhausted with only 10 thousand cases and very old people are being left to die, because there is no capacity, it's easy to imagine what would happen in a really widespread outbreak - basically everyone who needs advanced medical attention dies.

There is nothing "contentious" about vaccines. The whole scientific community agrees that vaccines in use are safe and effective, due to rigorous testing in place before any one is released to the public. The story about "vaccines causing autism" has long been debunked as a scam, it was literally fabricated for money. However because of nutjobs who spread misinformation about vaccines, there are now outbreaks of measles in civilized world. Many vaccines are only effective if enough of the population is vaccinated to stop the spread, as the vaccines may not be inefficient in individual cases or when many people can not vaccinated for medical reasons. People who spread unfounded fear of vaccines are in my opinion directly responsible for the deaths so caused.

If we want to discuss who people are, let's look at you: you are someone who is more interested your wonky views of reality than in the lives of other people. That's what you are.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 15:05   #19
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The virus is NOT harmless to "the vast majority of people". Would it be so hard to educate yourself with some basic facts before you start acting all clever online? Depending on the location (thus depending on the testing and population age structure) the of infected people that need at least supplemental oxygen at some point during the disease seems to reach 10 percent, somewhere even more. Considering that in Italy the capacity is already exhausted with only 10 thousand cases and very old people are being left to die, because there is no capacity, it's easy to imagine what would happen in a really widespread outbreak - basically everyone who needs advanced medical attention dies.

There is nothing "contentious" about vaccines. The whole scientific community agrees that vaccines in use are safe and effective, due to rigorous testing in place before any one is released to the public. The story about "vaccines causing autism" has long been debunked as a scam, it was literally fabricated for money. However because of nutjobs who spread misinformation about vaccines, there are now outbreaks of measles in civilized world. Many vaccines are only effective if enough of the population is vaccinated to stop the spread, as the vaccines may not be inefficient in individual cases or when many people can not vaccinated for medical reasons. People who spread unfounded fear of vaccines are in my opinion directly responsible for the deaths so caused.

If we want to discuss who people are, let's look at you: you are someone who is more interested your wonky views of reality than in the lives of other people. That's what you are.
1. Look up the definition of "vast majority" - it is not incongruent with the death rates, nor even the figures you quote. There certainly seems greater susceptibility among older people or those with various preexisting conditions - nothing too much unique in that ...
2. This article says a similar thing.
https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...ected-in-china
3. The second person to die of COVID-19 in this country was 95 years old ..... 95 years old ! Mass panic !!
4. The field of "healing" is far greater than what you have mentioned. Just because you are ignorant of it has no bearing on those who successfully practice/receive it.
5. The "whole scientific community" does not agree about vaccines. I suggest you go to the primary sources for yourself - read the Material Safety Data Sheets listing all ingredients and quantities in Vaccines and integrate that over the prescribed schedule for a newborn through their life. You should also research the Doctors /Scientists who are not on board.
6. The term "wonky" is a judgement that you ascribe from your limited understanding. It is only fear of the unknown that causes you to seek to demonize 'the other'.


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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 15:21   #20
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
1. Look up the definition of "vast majority" - it is not incongruent with the death rates, nor even the figures you quote. There certainly seems greater susceptibility among older people or those with various preexisting conditions - nothing too much unique in that ...
2. This article says a similar thing.
https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...ected-in-china
3. The second person to die of COVID-19 in this country was 95 years old ..... 95 years old ! Mass panic !!
4. The field of "healing" is far greater than what you have mentioned. Just because you are ignorant of it has no bearing on those who successfully practice/receive it.
5. The "whole scientific community" does not agree about vaccines. I suggest you go to the primary sources for yourself - read the Material Safety Data Sheets listing all ingredients and quantities in Vaccines and integrate that over the prescribed schedule for a newborn through their life. You should also research the Doctors /Scientists who are not on board.
6. The term "wonky" is a judgement that you ascribe from your limited understanding. It is only fear of the unknown that causes you to seek to demonize 'the other'.


Attachment 720856




Chosun
The argument "look how little people died of this so far" is a clear indication of a complete lack of understanding on your side. In every country, it started as a few cases, then it inevitable starts following an exponential trend. Who died in your country in particular is statistically irrelevant. Also, I for one do not consider old people disposable.

The fact that vaccines contain substances that sound scary to you doesn't prove anything. The whole scientific community is in consensus, the fraction of people in consensus is ironically much larger than the "vast majority" of people who will survive the virus. The fact that there are people with an MD title who shill against vaccines is another thing - not every doctor is a scientist, the (one would even say vast) majority of doctors do not actively practice scientific research, only apply the training they have gotten. Because we need so many doctors to practice given the huge population of people, it's almost inevitable that there will scientifically disinclined individuals among them. If you claim that vaccines are dangerous, then I cordially invite you to show us broadly accepted peer reviewed scientific studies proving so. I am honestly open to changing my mind.

Even though you have not spelled it out, I strongly suspect that your idea of "healing" is using methods that are not scientifically proven to have an effect. Such a belief may seem harmless - after all you are just harming yourself by refusing to get actual treatment instead - but the problem is that people are gullible. Those who push these alternative treatments are actually able to convince many people to chose them instead of actual medicine. You should look up some stories from oncologists (the ones I know are in Czech, so I can't readily show you) that see patients coming to them in terminal stages, who could have been cured and could have lived for decades, if only they have come sooner - but at this critical time, they were occupied by applying whatever snake oil was just in fashion.

Anti-scientific stances ARE tangibly harmful.


EDIT: Lastly, I would like to say that I am utterly disappointed that Chosun's bullshit does not lead to more push-back among the users of this forum. I mean the sole fact that someone is able to spew anti-vax propaganda here and literally nobody cares, is really a great shame.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 15:42   #21
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Sorry Jan, I'm here to help. Just a minute until I find some figures
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 16:07   #22
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Ok. So. I am totally with you Jan. It has taken me a while because I am not very good with figures... This is not just an ordinary flu: true, the majority of people have only mild symptoms, but about 10% have to be hospitalised in an ICU.

Also, this is VERY contagious, much more than the ordinary flu and affects older people, whereas the normal flu usually hits kids the hardest. In most western countries people over 65 are advised to get a flu jab, so they are not affected by the seasonal flu or have only mild symptoms, while this is totally new which means that lots of people can get it at the same time and even if only 10% go to ICUs, this figure may well be above the number of ICU beds available in one given area.

Which is what is happening in Northern Italy. Which has one of the best health services in the world, by the way. There are not enough beds because this virus is NEW and VERY contagious and causes viral pneumonia in the frailest part of the population. Yesterday the total number of cases in Italy was 12462, with 827 deaths, this is roughly over 6%. Ordinary flu has a death rate around 0.1 0.2 %.

We are very concerned here and I don't want to try and experience the virus, nor I would wish that for any members of my family or my friends.

Please delete your post, Chosun, because there are people out there who might believe what you are saying

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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 16:13   #23
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I posted this on an earlier thread -

Stats for Italy (7th March) -

Percentage of deaths by age group:
90+ years old: 6% of deaths
80 - 89 years old: 42% of deaths
70 - 79 years old: 35% of deaths
60 - 69 years old: 16% of deaths

Note none younger than 60. Age/prevalence of underlying health issues causal ...



Basically, if we don't want to worry about it, then be prepared to lose your parents/grandparents prematurely.

The people 'in power' tend to be in the older demographic, so yes, perhaps they have a slight vested interest in controlling this ... but that's about as far as it goes in terms of me agreeing that there's any kind of conspiracy out there.
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 16:18   #24
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Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
Stats for Italy (7th March) -

Percentage of deaths by age group:
90+ years old: 6% of deaths
80 - 89 years old: 42% of deaths
70 - 79 years old: 35% of deaths
60 - 69 years old: 16% of deaths

I seem to remember that there were also a few deaths in the 50 - 59 group, about 4%. We were discussing it the other day, but I can't find the figures now
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Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 16:18   #25
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There are people out there who might believe what you are saying
Funnily enough, this forum is probably the best place for CJ to post such things - there's little chance anyone reading on here will say to themselves 'hmmm - that must be right because they said it' ...

On other social media as standalone comments ... that may be different.
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