des Murs's Wiretail "GAY 1845" (1 Viewer)

Björn Bergenholtz · Jan 18, 2017

I´m usually stuck in the Subforum Bird Name Etymology but now I have a question for you "taxonomists", about the species Des Murs's Wiretail [not of the eponym itself, it´s fairly obvious: commemorating the French ornithologist Marc Athanase Parfait Œillet des Murs (1804–1894)], but regarding the spelling of the scientific name of this species:

How come IOC changed the scientific name Sylviorthorhynchus desmursii (used up to version 5.02) to Sylviorthorhynchus desmurii in version 5.03 ... and onwards?

As far as I understand it, this far, the latter is the proper one (even if no other taxonomic lists seem to use it!) ... however, what I cannot understand is why Avibase (here) in the entry for "Des Murs's Wiretail Sylviorthorhynchus desmurii Gay, 1845" claim the protonym of this species to be "Sylviorthorhynchus Desmursii", with the following reference; "Hist.Chile[Gay] 1 p.316 Atlas 2 Orn. pl.[3]" which, as far as I can tell is a reference to "Historia fisica y politica de Chile ... " and directly this page: here, by Mr. Gay, whom wrote it as "Sylviorthorhynchus Desmurii" ... but that book is from 1847 !? See the Title Page (same book, on BHL).

So what´s the earlier "1845" source? And if there isn´t one, and the one above is the true OD, why is this species claimed to be described in 1845?

In the Atlas this birds is called the same "Desmurii" (here), but it´s probably of minor interest since both Atlas's seems to have been published in 1854.

Thereby; in short: Why "1845"?

Anyone know?
--

Paul Clapham · Jan 18, 2017

I looked in the IOC 5.3 spreadsheet to see if there were any comments about the taxonomy of Des Murs's Wiretail and, there were. It said

Correct original spelling. Zoonomen. Dickinson & Christidies, 2104.

And, "Dickinson & Christidis, 2014" (allowing for sloppy typing in the spreadsheet) means Volume 2 of the Howard and Moore checklist, Fourth Edition. In which the footnote attached to Des Murs's Wiretail says

Dates from Gay's plates, published ahead of the text; see Gregory & Dickinson (2012).

So at this point I conjecture that the plates were published in 1845, before the publication of the book in 1847. I expect it would be possible to find the Gregory and Dickinson 2012 paper, whose citation they give as

Gregory, S.M.S. & E.C. Dickinson, 2012. An assessment of three little‐noticed papers on avian nomenclature by G.N. Kashin during 1978‐1982. ‒ Zootaxa, 3340: 44‐58.

although it's unavailable to the general public on-line.

mb1848 · Jan 18, 2017

The (a) plate is from 1845(?) or (47?) but it is published by Temminck from a name by Des Murs.
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/109479#page/403/mode/1up . The birds of Chile says "The plate published in the Zoological Atlas of the "Histqria flsica y politica
de Chile" appears to have slight priority over Des Murs's description and figure in
the "Iconographie Ornithologique." Generic and specific name should, therefore,
be credited to Gay."
The text part of O. des Murs for the bird is dated February 1847, but it is after the plate because it uses Gay's name.
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/109479#page/228/mode/1up .
Published in 12 livraisons of 6 plates each with corresponding text.
"The text of each species is separately dated but as these dates are not consecutive throughout they probably represent the completion of the manuscript and not the dates of issue."--Zimmer. J.T. Ayer Library., 168.

Nutcracker · Jan 18, 2017

Paul Clapham said:
I expect it would be possible to find the Gregory and Dickinson 2012 paper, whose citation they give as

Gregory, S.M.S. & E.C. Dickinson, 2012. An assessment of three little‐noticed papers on avian nomenclature by G.N. Kashin during 1978‐1982. ‒ Zootaxa, 3340: 44‐58.

although it's unavailable to the general public on-line.

And not even available on sci-hub! No doi number, either.

l_raty · Jan 18, 2017

Gregory & Dickinson 2012:

[...]
Gay's Historia fisica y politica de Chile, Zoologia is many volumes long. The first of the Zoology volumes, which includes the birds, is dated 1847, with a Preface dated January. Here (on p. 315) the author of Sylviorthorhynchus is not stated so the name would have to be attributed to Des Murs as author of the text, unless the name appeared earlier. The plate depicted and named the species Sylviorthorhynchus desmurii Gay—not desmuri as given by Sherborn (1925b: 1885)—and the text (p. 316) uses the same spelling and adds Gay, ‘Icon.’ Thus, Kashin did not draw his spelling from here.
Kashin’s potential alternative source was the Iconographie Ornithologique of Des Murs. Des Murs, in livraison 8, also dated 1847, in support of his plate XLV, included text on the genus and text about the species. In the former he used the spelling Sylviorthorhyncus but in the species account he used Sylviorthorhynchus, so the generic text here, in abstraction of the species text and plate, could have been Kashin’s source.
In the ‘Iconographie’ the texts on the genus and the species are both dated February, 1847, but other accounts in the same livraison are dated March 1847. Gay’s 1847 volume, despite its Preface date, should probably be dated from 31 December 1847 (I.C.Z.N, 1999; Art. 21.3. No information is known to us that suggests that this volume of text appeared in parts. However, the plates were intended for an ‘Atlas’ volume and here there is evidence that these did not all appear at once.
Zimmer (1926: 237) wrote: “The date of the plates is open to question. All the zoological plates occur in the complete work, in Vol. II of the atlas, but they were issued at widely different times. Those in the present set (comprising all of the mammals and birds) are accompanied by an original wrapper dated 1848. ... There is nothing to show, however, that it appeared with any of the plates which are now associated with it”. Dickinson et al. (2011: 93) reported a similar wrapper but that one was dated 1849. Zimmer (1926, p. 238) continued “Des Murs, in his ‘Iconographie Ornithologique’ 1845-49 (q.v.) gave good evidence that some of the plates preceded the text. In Livr. 1 in the discussion of the genus Merganetta ... he said “Dès la même année [= 1844], M. Gay l’a également fait figurer dans l’Atlas de son immense ouvrage sur le Chili ... et lui a donné le nom de Raphipterus” [“From the same year [= 1844] Monsieur Gay had this depicted in the Atlas of his immense work on Chile ... and gave it the name Raphipterus”]. So here we have evidence that the duck that Des Murs depicted in plate V had been depicted by Gay in 1844, which is in agreement with Sherborn (1925a: 1231). Zimmer then wrote “In Livraison 8 of the ‘Iconographie’, in the discussion of the genus Sylviorthorhynchus (in the last paragraph), he says “Nous avons établi ce Genre particulier ... sur une jolie Espèce qu’a decouverte M. Gay, et que ce savant Voyageur nous avoit confiée pour en joindre la description à la figure qu’il en a publiée dans san Grand Ouvrage sur le Chili.” [Here, Des Murs’ French is slightly ambiguous but reads “We have based this particular genus ... on an attractive species discovered by Monsieur Gay of which this scholarly traveller sent us the description that he had published in his great work on Chile to join to the picture ...” (referring to the plate in the Iconographie); a comparison of the wording of the two descriptions shows that the Latin diagnoses are identical, and indeed Des Murs attributed this diagnosis to Gay.] And in the next page where Des Murs provides the title for the species account one finds “Sylviorthorhynchus desmurii. Gay. Historica fisica y politica de Chile, por Claudio Gay. 1844”. Confirming this Zimmer went on to say “In the text to pll. 5 and 45, Raphypternus chilensis Gay and Sylviorthorhynchus desmurii are quoted from Gay’s ‘Historia fisica y politica de Chile,’ 1844”. So the evidence demonstrates that Des Murs believed that the plates of both these species were published in 1844.
Additional evidence to be weighed is that Gay’s plate of Sylviorthorhynchus is dated 1845 and Des Murs (1853) in a later work referred to that date. Sherborn was silent here; it seems he picked up the case of Merganetta but not the spinetail. Des Murs appears not to have known of this much before February 1847 because his plate XLV in the ‘Iconographie’ is captioned “Sylviorthorhynchus maluroides (O. des Murs)” which demonstrates that the caption was engraved before the text was finalised.
Hellmayr (1925: 55) attributed the name desmurii to Des Murs in Gay, 1847, citing p. 316 and pl. 3 [= 5] but apparently was unaware that the plate and text may have appeared at different times.
In conclusion, it seems either that Kashin misread Gay’s work or that he lacked access to it and took his spelling of the generic name from that used by Des Murs (1847) in the text in the ‘Iconographie’. In doing so he ignored the differing spelling (Sylviorthorhynchus) used with the species text and in the plate caption. Gay’s plate is dated 1845 and the evidence proves that it may well have appeared in 1844: engraving dates can antedate or postdate publication. We judge the conservative and correct citation for both the generic and the specific names must be to Gay, 1845, Historia fisica y politica de Chile, Atlas 2, pl. 5. Reference to the later text should be separated.

(Gay's Historia fisica y politica de Chile, Zoología, tomo primero: [here]; Atlas: [Ornitología, lám. 3].
Des Murs' Iconographie ornithologique: [here]; [plate 45].
Des Murs (in Chenu) 1853(?): [p.154].
Zimmer 1926: [p.237].)

I'm still not clear about the origin of '1845', however -- I see no such date associated to Gay’s plate of Sylviorthorhynchus anywhere in the original works. (This year is indeed cited by Des Murs [in Chenu] 1853, but D&G 2012 appear to interpret the 1853 text as a mere confirmation, which implies some other original source.)

Additionally, this:

[Here, Des Murs’ French is slightly ambiguous but reads “We have based this particular genus ... on an attractive species discovered by Monsieur Gay of which this scholarly traveller sent us the description that he had published in his great work on Chile to join to the picture ...” (referring to the plate in the Iconographie); a comparison of the wording of the two descriptions shows that the Latin diagnoses are identical, and indeed Des Murs attributed this diagnosis to Gay.]

...is entirely incorrect. (And I fear that straightening the case might prove fatal to the conclusion.)

[Des Murs' French]:

Nous avons établi ce Genre particulier, et jusqu'à présent spécial au Chili, sur une jolie Espèce qu’a découverte M. Gay, et que ce savant Voyageur nous avoit confiée pour en joindre la description à la figure qu’il en a publiée dans son Grand Ouvrage sur le Chili.

...is unambiguous and translates literally as:

'We have established this peculiar Genus, as yet restricted to Chile, on a nice Species which Mr Gay discovered, and which this knowledgeable Traveller had entrusted to us, to join its description to the plate that he published of it in his Great Work about Chile.'

'We', in this text, is clearly a royal plural meaning Des Murs alone. (He is explicitly saying us that he is the author of the generic name; see also the header of [the previous page]). This sentence does not suggest at all that Gay sent or published a description: Gay provided the species and published the figure; it's Des Murs that joined the description. Des Murs' use of tenses (past perfect 'avoit confié', vs. perfect 'a publié') further suggests that Gay gave him the specimen(s) before the plate was published. (If the plate was published much earlier, this conflicts directly with G&D's inference that Des Murs did not know of this much before February 1847.) It is also incorrect that Des Murs [in Gay] 'attributed this diagnosis to Gay': what Des Murs attributed to 'Cl. Gay', there, is the name 'S. DESMURII', and nothing else. (Compare to any other name in the same work -- e.g., Sylvia [on the next page]:

II. CURRUCA. - SYLVIA.
[Latin diagnosis.]
SYLVIA Lath. - MOTACILLA Gmel. - PHILOMELA Swains. - CURRUCA Meyer.

Latham, Gmelin, Swainson and Meyer are the authors of the names Sylvia, Motacilla, Philomela and Curruca. Not the authors of the diagnosis.)

l_raty · Jan 18, 2017

l_raty said:
(If the plate was published much earlier, this conflicts directly with G&D's inference that Des Murs did not know of this much before February 1847.)

Albeit this inference:

Des Murs appears not to have known of this much before February 1847 because his plate XLV in the ‘Iconographie’ is captioned “Sylviorthorhynchus maluroides (O. des Murs)” which demonstrates that the caption was engraved before the text was finalised.

...may conceivably not be correct either because, [in 1853], the name he used for the species was again Sylviorthorhynchus maluroides (O. des Murs). Thus the case doesn't appear to be as simple as him having switched from maluroides (already engraved on his plate) to desmurii, upon learning that the latter existed, and had precedence.

Björn Bergenholtz · Jan 18, 2017

Thanks guys for your enthusiasm and kind help!

Thereby I assume we (?) simply have to trust the words of des Murs himself (i.e. in Chenu, link in Laurent's Post #5):

Nous avons etabli ce genre particulier, et jusqu'à présent spécial au Chili, sur une jolie espèce qu'y a découverte M. Cl. Gay, et que ce savant voyageur nous avait confiée pour en joindre la description la figure qu'il en a publiée en 1845, dans son grand ouvrage sur le Chili. Nous l'avons figurée nous-méme depuis, en 1847, dans notre Iconographie ornithologique, pl. XVL.

In any case I think we´ve now concluded that Avibase's claim that the protonym being; "Sylviorthorhynchus Desmursii" (that caused my first question) is false. The proper version truly seems to be: "Sylviorthorhynchus Desmurii" as in today's IOC list: Sylviorthorhynchus desmurii GAY 1845.

That´ll be enough (at least on my part), now I understand what I need to know. Further details I leave in your capable hands.

Once again thanks! :t:

Björn

mb1848 · Jan 18, 2017

A book on Google lists the dates of Murs (des) Iconographie ornithologique livraison 1 1845 liv. 2 1845, liv. 3-5 as 1846 and Des Murs Iconographie ornithologique liv. 11 as 1848. Livraison 9 is presumably were pl. 45 is from and my guess would be 1847.
https://books.google.com/books?id=q...ue+des+Murs+livraison+1&source=gbs_navlinks_s . Page 35. Livraison 7 is dated 1846 in List of type specimens of birds in the collections of the
Muséum national d’Histoire naturelle (Paris, France). 21. Strigiformes. V. & V.
Zoonomen is down! Saints preserve the life of Dr. Peterson! Zoonomen says: Iconographie ornithologique. Nouveau recueil général
des planches peintes d'oiseaux, Pour servir de Suite et de Complément aux
Planches Enluminées de Buffon, Éditions in-folio et in-4to de
l'Imprimerie Royale, 1770, et aux planches coloriées de MM.
Temminck et Laugier de Chartrouse, méemes formats, accompagnée
d'un texte raisonné, critique et descriptif. [&c] Figures dessinéees et
peintes par Alphonse Prevost [planches 1-24] et Oudard [planches 25-72].

Des Murs, Marc Athanese Parfait Oeillet
Paris
folio 13+146 ll.
12 livraisons
Livraison Year.
1 1845
2 1846
3 1846
4-10 1847
11 1848
12 1849
[Notes:
Evidently available in both folio, and 4to formats.
Livr. 1 noted in Rev.Zool. for Sept., 1845 p.345 and its contents given Also the 2nd Livr. is said "paraîtra au mois de novembre" But in the Dec. no. of Rev.Zool. Des Murs refers to the 1st livr. as published in November. Either a lapsus for August or September or an allusion to the pattern of delay of appearance of the monthly numbers.
Livr. 1 4to 7 feuilles (leaves) (also in folio 13½ feuilles). Noticed in the Bib. Fr. Nov. 15, 1845.
Livr. 4,5&6 Rec'd by the Paris Acad. in week ending Jan 25, 1847
Livr. 7 4to 3¼ feuilles (leaves) (also in folio 6½ feuilles). Noticed May. 1847.
Livr. 8 Noticed July. 1847.
Livr. 10 4to 4 feuilles (leaves) (also in folio 8 feuilles). Noticed Froriep's Dec. 1847 p.224.
Livr. 12 noticed Oct, 31, 1849. Apparently with imprint of "déc 1848" (based on CWR's card for Dendrocolaptes pucheranii).
Normand David communicates his findings (2006.07.09) on examination of the wrappers of a set of this work as follows: Iconogr.Orn. Wrappers. A link I cannot read.
The BnF catalogue says Note(s) : Mq. planches 31-72 et f. 1 de la 11e livraison

l_raty · Jan 18, 2017

mb1848 said:
Normand David communicates his findings (2006.07.09) on examination of the wrappers of a set of this work as follows: Iconogr.Orn. Wrappers. A link I cannot read.

The link you cannot read is to a 2-page .doc file. The first page describes the general Title Page of the work, i.e., [this]; the second page says:

There are 12 livraisons, each containing 6 plates + texts, but note that Livraisons 1 and 2 were issued together. There is no page number on text pages, but each plate is numbered consecutively (1-72). At the end of each text there is a printed date (month, year), such as: Mai 1845, Avril 1846, Décembre 1848, etc. Each livraison has its own front and back wrappers.

The 11 Front wrappers are identical to the general Title Page, except for two important details: a Livraison number is present instead of "PREMIÈRE PARTIE", as well as printed date (year) instead of "1849". They are as follows:

1e et 2e Livraison [written in pencil] 1845 [most texts dated "Mai 1845"; the first: "Août 1845; the third: "Juin 1845]

III e Livraison [printed] 1846 [texts dated: Décembre 1845]

IV e Livraison [printed] 1846 [texts dated: Avril 1846]

V e Livraison [printed] 1846 [texts dated: Mai 1846]

VI e Livraison [printed] 1846 [texts dated: Août 1846]

VII e Livraison [printed] 1847 [texts dated: Décembre 1846]

VIII e Livraison [printed] 1847 [texts dated: Mars 1847]

IX e Livraison [printed] 1847 [texts dated: Juin 1847]

X e Livraison [printed] 1847 [texts dated: Septembre 1847]

XI e Livraison [printed] 1848 [texts dated: Janvier 1848]

XII e Livraison [printed] 1849 [texts dated: Décembre 1848]

The back wrappers contains various printed informations (announcement of other books, growing list of subscribers). For Livraisons 1, 2 and 3, a text says: "Paraît chaque mois par livraison de 6 planches" [= Published monthly, 6 plates to a Livraison]. For Livraisons 4 to 12, the text says: " Paraît par livraison de six planches" [Published in livraisons of six plates].

'Hope this is not a serious problem as well.

mb1848 · Jan 19, 2017

Dr. Neal L. Evenhuis has done in depth research on the dating of all the parts (entragas) of Claud Gay's Historia Fisica y Politica de Chile and will publish them anon. He looked at wrappers and Gay's correspondence. Here he gives the dates for Diptera in volume 7 of the zoological parts:
http://www.nadsdiptera.org/News/FlyTimes/issue55.pdf . Page 40. He states that many of the dates he discovered are different than previously stated.

Peter Kovalik · Jan 18, 2018

Proposal (767) to SACC

Change the specific epithet of Des Murs's Wiretail to desmurii

Peter Kovalik · Jul 8, 2018

Peter Kovalik said:
Proposal (767) to SACC

Change the specific epithet of Des Murs's Wiretail to desmurii

DID NOT PASS

Björn Bergenholtz · Jul 8, 2018

If still of interest ... (as earlier mentioned as "unavailable", see post #2, 4-6)

An assessment of three little-noticed papers on avian nomenclature by G. N. Kashin during 1978-1982, by S. M. S. Gregory & E. C. Dickinson, Zootaxa 3340 (2012) ... now fully accessible, uploaded by Steven Gregory himself, on ResearchGate (here).

However; enjoy!

mb1848 · Oct 8, 2023

An article about bugs might add more info about Gay dates?
"Results of bibliographical research has found evidence of issuance of the first two plates of the Diptera that are prior to the year (“1854”) onthe title page of the Atlas."
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/dating/sherbornia/issues/s08-02.pdf .

des Murs's Wiretail "GAY 1845" (1 Viewer)

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