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Please Identify Southeast TN in USA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lwood114
- Start date
I’m afraid I don’t have any experience with ebird so don’t know what its listing conventions are, but my guess is that it either has no interest in feral barnyard ducks at all or that it has a special category for them. I’d be very surprised if simply listing them under “mallard” would be appropriate.
Have you checked the ebird website about this? It must have posted its listing rules somewhere. Sorry not to be of more help.
Glad to "hear" you are using eBird! However, these are domestic birds, not technically "countable" on a list, and I personally wouldn't put them on eBird any more than I would put chickens I saw in someone's yard. If you want to record them, you should not put them simply as mallard--that means wild-type mallard. There is a listing on eBird "Mallard (domestic type)", and you can put that on your checklist by clicking "rare species" on the top and then typing those words in the "add species" box. It's up to you.
Best,
Jim
Expanding on my earlier post, in deciding whether to “count” birds of domestic origin, it is necessary first to establish whether the birds in question are “free-living” or captive. No one counts battery hens or dovecote pigeons, for example. Most birders do, however, count feral city pigeons which have large self-sustaining populations in most of our towns, as well as various foreign parrots (which also have supposedly self-sustaining populations in various parts of the country). Barnyard ducks & geese, on the other hand, even when free-living or “feral” at public parks & similar places are generally not counted. This is partly just prejudice--many birders are snobbish about feral birds of any kind--& partly because such populations are doubtfully self-sustainable in the sense that they would probably soon disappear if not continually augmented by new stocks (escapes, deliberate releases of unwanted pets, whatever).
Whether you want to keep track of your feral ducks or not on your own private list, is up to you. I personally keep lists of feral ducks & geese, as I find them interesting. As far as ebird is concerned, if it indeed has a category for domestic ducks & you want to record them, go ahead. In doing so, you’ll be contributing useful data.
Whether you want to keep track of your feral ducks or not on your own private list, is up to you. I personally keep lists of feral ducks & geese, as I find them interesting. As far as ebird is concerned, if it indeed has a category for domestic ducks & you want to record them, go ahead. In doing so, you’ll be contributing useful data.
What's useful about recording barnyard ducks living as somebody's pets Fred? You said you didn't use and didn't know anything about eBird and now you pretend to be the expert. Do you also think it's useful to record the number of turkeys you see at a turkey farm or the domestic ducks you see in a pet shop? Are the birds going on the endangered species list if their numbers dwindle; are they going to study how their distribution is affected by global warming or how they migrate? Ebird makes it difficult to record such data precisely because there is typically no use for it. I have no problem recording domestic variants or escapes actually surviving in the wild, but pure white pure domestic ducks on somebody's pond are another matter.
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"And now I pretend to be the expert"? What on earth brought all this on, Jimzie? Did you actually read what I wrote? It’s in simple clear English & I can’t believe that you wouldn’t have understood it if you had. But of course you read it & are just being an “ignoranus” again, aren’t you?
“Ebird makes it difficult to record such data precisely because there is no use for it (sic!).” A truly loony point. Are you serious? If ebird actually “thought” such data useless, it would make it impossible to record them, not just “difficult”.
As I’ve pointed out to you before, brooding on ancient defeats is a mug’s game. Take my advice, & put it all behind you if you can & turn a new page. You’ll be much happier & there will be much less chance of your suffering further humiliations.
Note to lwood144
Sorry lwood114 you seem to have got caught in the middle. The above is private business between me & Jimzie who in attempts to settle old scores loses it periodically & starts frothing at the mouth.
If you have any other questions about your ducks, BTW--or about feral waterfowl in general--why don’t you just PM me? In that way we can continue the discussion without running the risk of further upsetting Jimzie.
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I see now you've resorted to name calling, mischaracterization, and personal attacks instead of responding to the perfectly reasonable arguments in my entirely substantive post, per usual. I know you have to have the last word in these arguments you keep instigating, so go ahead Fred.
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And what is your whole post--a single excited sentence--but string of personal insults?
Not respond to your arguments? You mean like the one about ebird making it “difficult’ to report feral ducks? A real doozy that one, I chuckle every time I think of it. Remember, Jimzie, it’s a two-way street: if you want “substantive” responses you have to make substantive points.
walternewton
Well-known member
Jeez guys, take your pissing contest offline, nobody cares.
I know, I know, boring to those not involved. But don’t worry, I’m finished here, & I have already apologized to the OP.
Angnix
GWWA
I record the domestic Mallards I see on the river in the domestic Mallard category on eBird, but when you look at your life list data it doesn't seem to appear, or they lump it in with Mallard, I don't know. When I go to edit checklist for example with both Mallard and Domestic Mallard, the Domestics are obmitted from total number of species seen. Rock Pigeons I also count.
But yea, stuff in people's yards are not countable obviously.
But yea, stuff in people's yards are not countable obviously.
That’s how I would expect ebird to handle domestic mallards since they’re not only the same species as wild mallards but they’re (probably) not able to maintain themselves in the wild as a separate population. They interbreed with wild mallards & their numbers are continually added to by new escapes & releases. But ebird obviously thinks they are worth keeping track of, it just doesn’t treat them the same as wild birds for listing purposes. That’s what I personally do in my own bird-watching. I don’t count them on my life list, but I make a note of the different varieties when I encounter them at public parks & such places. As I’ve said, I think they’re interesting.
Here are a couple of websites devoted to feral domestic mallards
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/crows/domducks.htm
http://10000birds.com/manky-mallards-domestic-feral-or-just-plain-odd-mallards.htm
This (http://10000birds.com/manky-mallards-domestic-feral-or-just-plain-odd-mallards.htm) used to be a very good website devoted to feral domestic ducks but it doesn’t seem to be available at the moment. I hope it comes back some day.
And here are photos of a few of the feral ducks (Mallards, Muscovies) & geese I’ve run into at public parks in Reno from time to time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/sets/72157607703835448/
eBird has two purposes: scientific research and, to encourage people to use it, personal listing software. To encourage people to use it, it offers a variety of functions that are of no use to scientists, e.g. recording the observation of a bird anywhere in an entire state on a particular day rather than at a definite location. Such entries, even those limited to a particular county, are routinely purged or invalidated from the database used by scientists. Thus, the inference that "eBird allows you to do something, so they must think it has value" is wrong. Moreover, the fact that they make it quite difficult to enter data about domestic mallards certainly suggests they aren't looking to encourage birders to submit this information, but offer it for those who like to track such things on their personal lists.
That said, I agree with Fred that many feral birds are often worth reporting and tracking--but I personally draw the line at these all white domestic duck thingy's which have never been known to establish a population in the wild or be able to survive in the wild AFAIK without human assistance, and are often bought as pets. That doesn't mean you can't find them interesting, it just means that I don't see much point to tracking their population and distribution, which is the main purpose of eBird from a scientific perspective.
That said, I agree with Fred that many feral birds are often worth reporting and tracking--but I personally draw the line at these all white domestic duck thingy's which have never been known to establish a population in the wild or be able to survive in the wild AFAIK without human assistance, and are often bought as pets. That doesn't mean you can't find them interesting, it just means that I don't see much point to tracking their population and distribution, which is the main purpose of eBird from a scientific perspective.
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Feral duck & goose populations in public parks are certainly valid objects of scientific enquiry & scientific studies of them have been conducted, for example studies dealing with the possible effects of feral wildfowl populations on native birds. Other studies have investigated the alleged deleterious effects of feral wildfowl on public health, a subject that has caused considerable disquiet over the years. See various old BF threads on the “artificial” feeding of wildfowl in public places for extended discussion of some of these concerns.
With regard to what ebird does & does not value in the way of data, perhaps you can give us a clue as to where this is spelled out on its website?
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