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?common crossbill, Corsica (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter marnixR
- Start date
AlinoVegano
Well-known member
100% correct
AlinoVegano
Well-known member
Loxia curvirostra corsicana
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
. . . which is one of the heavy-billed pine-feeding crossbills. Not as heavy-billed as Parrot Crossbill, but not far off.
What chance, if they ever find genetic markers able to elucidate a phylogeny for crossbills, it turns out to be a subspecies of Parrot, rather than Common???
AlinoVegano
Well-known member
There's more chances that we have an endemic species here... :eek!:
Well there are 2 options: either it is an endemic species or if not, forget about endemic Scottish Crossbill. Never understood why the insular mediterranean Crossbills did not get the same status as Scottish.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
You're not on your own Tom, many UK Birders are expecting Scottish to be relegated from full species to sub-species at some point I think, even LGRE doesn't count it at the UK 400 club.
A
AlinoVegano
Well-known member
There is simple reason. If we remove Scottish as a species, UK will not have any endemic species anymore. A shame for the birder's country...
They tried with Scottish Grouse, it didn't work. Now, last chance is the Scottich Crossbill. Other potential endemics such Pied and Yellow-headed Wagtails migrate elsewhere, so not real endemics... The grouse is sedentary, the crossbill might migrate, but anyway, no one can identify it away from breeding grounds, no risk of discovering that it is not totally endemic, finally... 8-P
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
What did they try, I've never heard anyone call them 'Scottish' Grouse, they will be the same as the ones in Northern England?
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AlinoVegano
Well-known member
Some earlier authors (such James Lee Peters) suggested Lagopus scotica (formerly scoticus) deserves species rank and is not subspecies of Lagopus lagopus. Is that the fact you never heard about?
The English name is not that important. We can find Scottish Ptarmigan, Scottish Grouse, Red Grouse and probably more synonymous... now all useless, as it seems the lump is solid enough!
Scotica (Scotica for Scotland... in case you didn't notice) does occur in Northern England of course. The name of a country or a region does't imply it is strictly endemic. Spanish Eagle does occur in Portugal and Morocco, Oenanthe hispanica neither isn't endemic to Spain.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Yes, never heard this, I've seen the scotticus applied but have never heard anyone call it Scottish Grouse or heard it suggested as an endemic, an endemic race maybe but that's all?
AlinoVegano
Well-known member
http://www.arkive.org/red-grouse/lagopus-lagopus/
As said earlier, there are other English names but this is not the point, right?
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
Oenanthe hispanica neither IS endemic to Spain.
Yes, but this case is different, as it refers to Hispania, the Roman name for the whole Iberian Peninsula, i.e. nowadays Portugal is included in Hispania; but this is just an aside comment
stevethehydra
Well-known member
I'm certain that if Lagopus (lagopus) scoticus was accepted as a full species, its official common name would be Red Grouse, not "Scottish Grouse". I don't think anyone in Britain calls it anything else.
(And I would have loved it to be Britain's national bird, especially with its connection to the history of conservation, freedom of movement and appreciation of the outdoors in Britain (e.g. the Kinder Trespass). But no, everyone loves the cute Christmas card robin...)
(And I would have loved it to be Britain's national bird, especially with its connection to the history of conservation, freedom of movement and appreciation of the outdoors in Britain (e.g. the Kinder Trespass). But no, everyone loves the cute Christmas card robin...)
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
I don't think that the UK has been geographically isolated from the European mainland for long enough to have developed any endemism?
A
A
AlinoVegano
Well-known member
English common name is an insignificant detail in scientific classification, right? And there are many "official" (by whom? ABA? IOC? BOU? AERC/TAC?) names that are not used by UK birders in the field.
UK is just too close to mainland Europe to avoid birds to cross, so their genes can be exchanged between UK and rest of Europe, that is preventing endemism.
Even ptarmigans/grouses can fly far!
http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic20-2-77.pdf
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AlinoVegano
Well-known member
Oenanthe hispanica neither IS endemic to Spain.
Yes, but this case is different, as it refers to Hispania, the Roman name for the whole Iberian Peninsula, i.e. nowadays Portugal is included in Hispania; but this is just an aside comment
Sorry, I do some mistakes in English. Generally speaking, that's another point: scientific names are supposed to be stable, but a country can change his name, change the boundaries... like birds called "poensis" for Fernando Po... now Bioko / Equatorial Guinea. Even mistakes cannot be corrected. Numenius madagasacariensis has never been seen in Madagascar...
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
In fact, amazingly, Ptarmigans (Lagopus spp.) have the ability of "landing" at sea: https://www.researchgate.net/public...including_water_landings_Kuskokwim_Bay_Alaska
