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How to cope with coronavirus

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Old Sunday 15th March 2020, 21:56   #51
Sancho
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There was a good article in The Guardian today about how residents in China coped with the lockdown. Id love to hear from BF members in Italy and Spain. Im not trying to minimise the scale of human suffering associated with this disease, but Im terrified, as we all are here, because rumours abound were going to be locked down shortl. Luckily we live in a house, with a front and back yard, which although small, are enough to sit outside, practice a bit of Tai Chi or Yoga, get some air. My in-laws in China were in an apartment, high up, for seven weeks. But the Chinese value harmony and cohesion. Even if they complain about their government response, they do what is best for society. The Chinese government could never have "controlled" the population in the way we imagine without massive social responsibility and compliance, Confucian-style. Im not sure how the Irish will react if it is announced, we traditionally comply with authoritarianism but resent it at the same time, rebellion is rare. Itll be hardest here on myself and my 17-year old son, we like to get out. My wife and youngest daughter are sanguine and self-contained. If I cant go cycling, swimming or birding, itll be tough, but its for the greater good, I am irrelevant, Im resourceful enough to tough it out. My own parents are 92 and 87, they live about ten kilometres away, presumably well be allowed to bring them supplies but we have to follow strict hygiene rules and leave the bag in their garage. The Chinese people interviewed in the Guardian seemed to concur that the way to get through this is to help others, but they were able to volunteer on Street Committees and in Hospitals. We wont be allowed to do that, afaik. Ive been teaching my students (secondary school) online, trying to get used to that, mostly to keep them busy and give them a routine. The ones who are anxious or who have conditions like ADHD are going to have it very tough, as are their families. The weirdest thing is the psychological and emotional reaction you observe in yourself. Weve all been through denial, dismissal, gallows humour, acceptance, despair, fear, resignation, stoicism, etc., sometimes all of these on the same day. Stay safe people, and try to encourage your elected representative to do the right thing, this is not a drill!

Last edited by Sancho : Sunday 15th March 2020 at 22:38.
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Old Sunday 15th March 2020, 23:08   #52
Chosun Juan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
...
. Elkcub bailed on the same occasion. . .. Snow flakery wherever one looks.....
AFAIK, Elkcub is happily flying like an eagle - now that he is unfettered from being surrounded by turkey's .......

You do of course realize that "Snowflake" and "Snow Flakery" is a favoured term of derision of the Far Right ..... right ?!

Are you finally coming out of the closet ? Changing your stripe ? Finally revealing your true political colours ?

I know you've got Dennis Leary on loop, but I think you may like this :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mUXHhhTXgnM

I can't decide which version I like best

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7T4BUzzUJNg






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Old Sunday 15th March 2020, 23:18   #53
Chosun Juan
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Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
There was a good article in The Guardian today about how residents in China coped with the lockdown. Id love to hear from BF members in Italy and Spain. Im not trying to minimise the scale of human suffering associated with this disease, but Im terrified, as we all are here, because rumours abound were going to be locked down shortl. Luckily we live in a house, with a front and back yard, which although small, are enough to sit outside, practice a bit of Tai Chi or Yoga, get some air. My in-laws in China were in an apartment, high up, for seven weeks. But the Chinese value harmony and cohesion. Even if they complain about their government response, they do what is best for society. The Chinese government could never have "controlled" the population in the way we imagine without massive social responsibility and compliance, Confucian-style. Im not sure how the Irish will react if it is announced, we traditionally comply with authoritarianism but resent it at the same time, rebellion is rare. Itll be hardest here on myself and my 17-year old son, we like to get out. My wife and youngest daughter are sanguine and self-contained. If I cant go cycling, swimming or birding, itll be tough, but its for the greater good, I am irrelevant, Im resourceful enough to tough it out. My own parents are 92 and 87, they live about ten kilometres away, presumably well be allowed to bring them supplies but we have to follow strict hygiene rules and leave the bag in their garage. The Chinese people interviewed in the Guardian seemed to concur that the way to get through this is to help others, but they were able to volunteer on Street Committees and in Hospitals. We wont be allowed to do that, afaik. Ive been teaching my students (secondary school) online, trying to get used to that, mostly to keep them busy and give them a routine. The ones who are anxious or who have conditions like ADHD are going to have it very tough, as are their families. The weirdest thing is the psychological and emotional reaction you observe in yourself. Weve all been through denial, dismissal, gallows humour, acceptance, despair, fear, resignation, stoicism, etc., sometimes all of these on the same day. Stay safe people, and try to encourage your elected representative to do the right thing, this is not a drill!
Sancho - not to worry :)

The biggest danger is the creators of fictitious finance sabotaging the people's economy and reaching into your pocket to take your real money .....

I imagine the Irish will get through this is fine style - lots of smiles and laughter, singing and dancing, maybe a melancholy limerick, plenty of jokes, and all round good craic !

It will be a couple hearty pies , maybe a guiness or two , and whatever your equivalent of she'll be right is

And probably a good dose of this !
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nWRYkRWZU





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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 00:36   #54
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...... but Im terrified, as we all are here, because rumours abound were going to be locked down shortly.....
Sancho - if you end up cooped up, here is a selection of peculiar and irreverent humour to help get you through !

** WARNING** : F-bombs etc throughout - Don't open if that will offend anyone .... so apart from the swearing there's likely to be all sorts of politically incorrect and 'offensive' things said ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L4MsorKfAWQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0dTg4RlxsTE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hqw5PPAsiK8

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...cus_composer=0







Chosun

Last edited by Chosun Juan : Monday 16th March 2020 at 02:12. Reason: One more :)
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 15:22   #55
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Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
Id love to hear from BF members in Italy and Spain.
Here I am Sancho. I have started a thread called "birding in the time of Coronavirus" here.

Lockdown is tough, especially as we live in a flat, but luckily in a small town and apart from going out to buy necessities we are allowed to exercise outdoors, albeit individually, so we can go for runs, or cycling or nordic walking, always keeping a distance of at least 1.5 metres from other people.

I have to say that the majority of people are taking it well as they realise that breaking the rules endangers not only their own lives and those of their families but especially those of the most vulnerable people. There seems to be a lot of cohesion and willingness to see this through all together and Flash mobs have been organised thorough social media. The other day at 12 people in the whole country opened their windows or went out on their balconies to play an instrument or to sing. The same day at 6pm everyone clapped their hands for the health professionals who are working endless shifts in the hospitals. Last night at 9 everyone switched their lights off and flashed torches in the windows... and so on. Kids have been asked to draw banners with the words "andr tutto bene" (everything will be all right) and a rainbow and towns are full of them - see my pics in the thread above.

Singing and dancing can be done, but each on their own. It would be nice if the solution was this simple.

So for the time being spirits are high, but it's been just over a week and we don't know how long it will last. If you have any questions feel free to ask. And no, this is not a conspiracy, people are dying and not only the elderly (and I don't think the elderly are disposable).

The hashtag is #io resto a casa (I'm staying at home). And that's the most important thing to do.

Last edited by 3Italianbirders : Monday 16th March 2020 at 18:48.
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 15:40   #56
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Originally Posted by 3Italianbirders View Post
Here I am Sancho. I have started a thread called "birding in the time of Coronavirus" here.

Lockdown is tough, especially as we live in a flat, but luckily in a small town and apart from going out to buy necessities we are allowed to exercise outdoors, albeit individually, so we can go for runs, or cycling or nordic walking, always keeping a distance of at least 1.5 metres from other people.

I have to say the the majority of people are taking it well as they realise that breaking the rules endangers not only their own lives and those of their families but especially those of the most vulnerable people. There seems to be a lot of cohesion and willingness to see this through all together and Flash mobs have been organised thorough social media. The other day at 12 people in the whole country opened their windows or went out on their balconies to play an instrument or to sing. The same day at 6pm everyone clapped their hands for the health professionals who are working endless shifts in the hospital. Last night at 9 everyone switched their lights off and flashed torches in the windows... and so on. Kids have been asked to draw banners with the words "andr tutto bene" (everything will be all right) and a rainbow and towns are full of them - see my pics in the thread above.

Singing and dancing can be done, but each on their own. It would be nice if the solution was this simple.

So for the time being spirits are high, but it's been just over a week and we don't know how long it will last. If you have any questions feel free to ask. And no, this is not a conspiracy, people are dying and not only the elderly (and I don't think the elderly are disposable).

The hashtag is #io resto a casa (I'm staying at home). And that's the most important thing to do.
Grazie. This is encouraging. The best case analysis here among health professionals is that we are two weeks behind Italy. The full lockdown was not announced today. But I am stunned by the nonchalant attitude of most people. In the pharmacies, strict protocol is observed. But in the liquor stores and groceries next door, nobody cares. If I need to go out, I wear rubber gloves, mountain biking face-mask (I dont want to buy surgical ones, our healthcare workers need them!). But people look at me as if Im some kind of freak. Im not, Im a 58-year old with three dependent kids. Everyone in the country will know someone today, who will be dead in two weeks. It is so very, very obvious. I salute the spirit of the Italian People, Avanti Populo! I saw the videos of them singing from the balconies....
And...I mean no offence to the English, who gave me employent forty years ago when my own country couldnt. But guys, you need to wake up, your government has taken a total wrong turn on this, look up the protocols and observe them, dont visit ageing relatives, dont let your kids play with other kids, get with the programme right now or it will be too late! And like 3Italianbirders said, STAY AT HOME! Dont put pressure on healthcare or public security personnel who are on the front line, and some of whom will die!
And...as regards singing and dancing....Tai Chi or Yoga. We will not be dancing when we count those who have been lost.

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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 15:55   #57
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Originally Posted by 3Italianbirders View Post
Here I am Sancho. I have started a thread called "birding in the time of Coronavirus" here.

Lockdown is tough, especially as we live in a flat, but luckily in a small town and apart from going out to buy necessities we are allowed to exercise outdoors, albeit individually, so we can go for runs, or cycling or nordic walking, always keeping a distance of at least 1.5 metres from other people.

I have to say the the majority of people are taking it well as they realise that breaking the rules endangers not only their own lives and those of their families but especially those of the most vulnerable people. There seems to be a lot of cohesion and willingness to see this through all together and Flash mobs have been organised thorough social media. The other day at 12 people in the whole country opened their windows or went out on their balconies to play an instrument or to sing. The same day at 6pm everyone clapped their hands for the health professionals who are working endless shifts in the hospital. Last night at 9 everyone switched their lights off and flashed torches in the windows... and so on. Kids have been asked to draw banners with the words "andr tutto bene" (everything will be all right) and a rainbow and towns are full of them - see my pics in the thread above.

Singing and dancing can be done, but each on their own. It would be nice if the solution was this simple.

So for the time being spirits are high, but it's been just over a week and we don't know how long it will last. If you have any questions feel free to ask. And no, this is not a conspiracy, people are dying and not only the elderly (and I don't think the elderly are disposable).

The hashtag is #io resto a casa (I'm staying at home). And that's the most important thing to do.
Thanks for that heartening account. Where I live now (Portland, Oregon) has been largely unscathed so far and the response to the virus is in its early stages. Starting today schools are closed but restaurants are still open (though the Governors just announced shes considering closing them) and there are no restrictions on shopping and other on outdoor activities. But odds are its just a matter of time and when that time comes, I hope Oregonians will react with the same grace and community spirit displayed by Italians.
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 16:32   #58
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Good luck to you too, Fugl, keep in touch, were all going to be a bit isolated for a while.
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 18:18   #59
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UK seems to have moved on from the "Let's just let everyone get it" phase. Johnson announced today people should stay home, minimise contact etc. But the schools are still open. Universities are taking the decision themselves to close (most in Scotland have already done so).

Panic-buying is all the rage, and supermarket shelves are empty. What people will do with a year's supply of toilet rolls I've no idea. Just went shopping for my 96-yr-old aunt, and had to go to 3 different shops (2 of them Asda & Tesco) just to get her the basics. Had to phone ahead and tell her to stay in the living room while I left her shopping in the hall and left, and I'm pretty much her only visitor. Stephen King's predictions are scary - first the election of Trump/Johnson in "The Dead Zone", then the flu pandemic (Captain Trips) in " The Stand". Stay well everyone.

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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 18:20   #60
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Interesting video from Ireland here about not underestimating this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CsAeuFAPy4
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 18:39   #61
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Interesting video from Ireland here about not underestimating this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CsAeuFAPy4
Apparently there is a tipping point beyond which the old normal dies. This is good, and the sooner it happens the better. 50,000 people were made redundant yesterday in Ireland. Mostly in bars, restaurants, etc. That is from a total population of 4.9 million, work force one third of that. This week will see a massacre in terms of closures, redundancies etc. But the economic side is one thing, the social is another. People are going to die in their homes of things that could normally be treated, because the health services cannot cope with the demand from CV19. If I, or anyone in my family, falls down the stairs this week and breaks our necks, that's tough, we're on our own. That is what "Stay Safe, People" actually means. And for the people who will have heart attacks, strokes, etc., it will be as bad. Do not underestimate the tsunamis that's coming, please. And do not underestimate Social Distancing....with effective SD, one infected person infects four more. Without good SD, one infected person will pass it on to 250. This is not fooling around on the internet, this is real and out there. If you do not exercise good SD and other protocols, you are helping the spread of the virus, even by example, and people will die because of your failure to act. If you stay at home, you are helping the services to do their job, and keeping yourself and your loved ones safe.

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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 20:46   #62
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The hospital in the city where I was born (Breda, NL) had 11 Covid-19 patients yesterday (3 or 4 of them under 50!), with room for just four more. This is the worst hit town in the Netherlands, but with only 100 cases there (including the nearest towns without hospitals) you cannot see this go well for long.
Apparently, there are some 800 beds available in the country (makes some sense, as Breda + surroundings has about 1/80th of the population): keeping that curve flat is important.

I really hope my mother doesn't do anything silly! Thankfully she had just given up her job in Breda before this started (she's 77 – she worked as an overseer for exams at a school for higher professional education).
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 11:00   #63
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There was some "Health Expert" called Dr. Hilary Jones being interviewed on an English programme, "Good Morning Britain" yesterday. Anyway...he was asked why UK doesn't close its schools, as other countries have done. He said other countries face different circumstances, "Ireland, for example, doesn't have a Health Service". Now in normal times I would consider this typical racist ignorance, and say the guy should know more about his closest foreign neighbour, with whom he shares a land border. I might even throw in that he must think we deal with illness using leprechauns and the evil eye. Or that our lack of a Health Service will come as a surprise to our Health Service Executive, the biggest employer in the country with 100k employees and a 16 billion euro budget (that is just the public service. There is a private hospital and insurance service in tandem). The system is far from perfect but right now that's not the point. The real issue here is that the land border (the one everyone was so worried about keeping open) is open. School and university students and workers cross it every day. What is even more worrying is that this guy is putting his own UK citizens in danger with his own level of ignorance of what is going on, and why other countries are taking it seriously. Honestly, fellow BF members who live in the UK, your government is failing you. Don't go panic buying, beg for your schools to be shut, observe the SD protocols that other countries are advising. If I lived in the UK now, I wouldn't send my kids to school. Even if they have "important" tests in June. GCSEs and A-levels are not the issue now.

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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 11:28   #64
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There was some guy called Dr. Hillary (I think he was described as a "Chief Medical Officer", but I'm not sure) being interviewed on an English programme, "Good Morning Britain" yesterday. Anyway...he was asked why UK doesn't close its schools, as other countries have done. He said other countries face different circumstances, "Ireland, for example, doesn't have a Health Service". Now in normal times I would consider this typical racist ignorance, and say the guy should know more about his closest foreign neighbour, with whom he shares a land border. I might even throw in that he must think we deal with illness using leprechauns and the evil eye. Or that our lack of a Health Service will come as a surprise to our Health Service Executive, the biggest employer in the country with 100k employees and a 16 billion euro budget (that is just the public service. There is a private hospital and insurance service in tandem). The system is far from perfect but right now that's not the point. The real issue here is that the land border (the one everyone was so worried about keeping open) is open. School and university students and workers cross it every day. What is even more worrying is that this guy is putting his own UK citizens in danger with his own level of ignorance of what is going on, and why other countries are taking it seriously. Honestly, fellow BF members who live in the UK, your government is failing you. Don't go panic buying, observe the SD protocols that other countries are advising. If I lived in the UK now, I wouldn't send my kids to school. Even if they have "important" tests in June. GCSEs and A-levels are not the issue now.
What if he wants the Irish to get fed up with the UK and close the borders themselves, thus making the closed border not his fault? 4D Chess!

(Due to some recent incidents, I feel obliged to clarify that this is not meant seriously.)
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 11:30   #65
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(Due to some recent incidents, I feel obliged to clarify that this is not meant seriously.)
And I apologise again, he's not the Chief Medical Officer, he's described as a "Health Expert" who does a lot of media appearances. How are things in Poland, Opisska?
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 11:32   #66
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The Dutch government kept the schools open for two days until it bowed under public pressure.
The idea was that children are not as susceptible and keeping them home would disrupt life too much, as supported by the national health and environment institute.
However, many people kept their children at home (and our house of representatives broadly backed a motion of the extreme right PVV not to punish parents who did), teachers' sick leave rose to 25% and other experts claimed that children could well be carriers.

I was a bit shocked to learn that the Dutch have about 25 times fewer emergency beds than the Germans, who have only 5 times as many inhabitants: https://link.springer.com/article/10...134-012-2627-8 (these data apparently still hold). UK and Ireland are similar to the Netherlands and worse than most European countries.
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 11:46   #67
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Dr Hilary Jones is a GP who likes to spend a lot of time dispensing his wisdom on TV shows. He's been around for years.
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 11:46   #68
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And I apologise again, he's not the Chief Medical Officer, he's described as a "Health Expert" who does a lot of media appearances. How are things in Poland, Opisska?
Well, there have been some measures and I can see from my window that the occupancy of suburban trains has dropped dramatically. But it is still allowed to go wherever you want to within the country - I am not doing it as I don't have to and at this point I feel no need to contribute to the spread. I am going to the nearby nature places once in a while, but I have decided against going to Beibrza for example as that province has not had any cases yet (while mine did).

The government handles it in a less show-off way than in Czech Republic (I am Czech, so I follow both), which may be good, or bad, we'll see ...

For me personally the key problem is the closed borders combined with my general ineptitude for paperwork. If I had rectified my legal status here earlier, I would have probably been fine, but now the offices are closed, so I am facing the risk of not being able to get back to Poland if I ever need to go to Czech Republic. But it's still a trivial issue compared to all the suffering the disease causes.
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 11:52   #69
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Sancho, it looks like NI parents are not unlike the Dutch: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51923280
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 12:11   #70
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What if he wants the Irish to get fed up with the UK and close the borders themselves, thus making the closed border not his fault? 4D Chess!

(Due to some recent incidents, I feel obliged to clarify that this is not meant seriously.)
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And I apologise again, he's not the Chief Medical Officer, he's described as a "Health Expert" who does a lot of media appearances. How are things in Poland, Opisska?
We're all pawns ...


Was going to say, Sancho, that sounded poor
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 13:11   #71
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We're all pawns ...


Was going to say, Sancho, that sounded poor
He apologised to Irish Health Workers on Social media..So fair play to him. I suppose on TV, off the cuff, he got it wrong under pressure.

Meanwhile I'm delighted to say that 'www.volunteer.ie' is overwhelmed with offers to help. Even if it's just to chat online tp people in hospital or isolation. Helping others helps oneself.
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 14:59   #72
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However, many people kept their children at home (and our house of representatives broadly backed a motion of the extreme right PVV not to punish parents who did), teachers' sick leave rose to 25% and other experts claimed that children could well be carriers.
Paediatricians here are saying that kids, especially teenagers are very good carriers because they rarely develop any symptoms but are extremely contagious
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 15:10   #73
Euan Buchan
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Its affecting my job I work in a Church Hall and many of the classes that take place have been cancelled. Most email & phone enquiries today have been cancellations.
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Old Tuesday 17th March 2020, 22:35   #74
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Paediatricians here are saying that kids, especially teenagers are very good carriers because they rarely develop any symptoms but are extremely contagious
Unfortunately this is the case. I teach in a state school. In our area, many kids were on school trips to Northern Italy at the mid-term break in February. A few kids I teach had mild symptoms on returning...mild headaches, mild sore throats, slight fevers...and the thing I noticed, and asked kids about, was a kind of pale, pasty, tired expression. Nice kids. They'll be okay. I dont't want anyone in our social media environment to make them feel like they're somehow responsible. They have a lot to deal with.

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Old Wednesday 18th March 2020, 13:51   #75
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Day 2 of my personally enforced home isolation, although all schools are closed, events cancelled, and Wisconsin finally closed all restaurants and bars (although thankfully delivery/carry out is still an option

I teach human anatomy, and at the moment I am in the process of moving the entire course, including a cadaver based lab, into online format. It's tedious work and its just not going to be an effective class for many. Furthermore, there is going to be a ripple effect as taking exams online will make the course far easier than in person, which means Human Physiology (the next course in the sequence for pre-nursing/pre-med is probably going to get a lot of students who should have been filtered out by there grades by anatomy
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