• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Hen Harriers go missing ... again (1 Viewer)

Craig H said:
I disagree. If the law actually punished people severely enough, it would have an impact.

Lets say brood management is employed for 10-12 years. The HH population explodes and we have lots of occupied territories. What then? There'll be a call for a cull. I'm afraid no one will ever be able to persuade me that in this scenario brood management is a viable option. The way it works in France is a genuine conservation effort where no one is purposefully going out of their way to persecute a bird. That is a huge difference.
Click to expand...

I can't really disagree to any of your points. I taking a pure pragmatic approach, as it stands Hen Harrier are extinct in England. I would rather have brood management and a possible cull in the future to having no Hen Harriers at present.
 
I can't really add anything to this discussion other than to add my own condemnation of these crimes. It's sad that these people can break the law time and time again with what amounts to impunity and sad too that so many in the establishment choose to ignore it. Sections of the press now appear to endorse the practise while concern by conservationists is dismissed as tree hugging sentimentalism.

Everyone agrees that managed grouse moors are better wildlife habitats that those over grazed by sheep and landowners point out the benefits to the rural and larger economy brought about by grouse shooting. So banning driven shooting ( my preference ) would gain little support. What can be done? Fines can be paid with the proceeds from one days shooting so are not really a deterrent, if they were we wouldn't be discussing this issue - again. I'd treat the criminals like anyone else that profits from crime, seize their assets, imprison the culprits and ban them from having any part in the industry in the future.

The problem is that the political will is lacking and that will only change if the collective public will demands it. Given that the public seems more concerned with the results of a crappy TV show or getting their hands on the next must have gadget I can't see it happening. I respect the work of the RSPB and the volunteers who give up their time but without the support of the authorities we'll be having this debate every year until there are no harriers left to persecute.

James.
 
Brood management is already taking place - they are not allowing any! The only way forward is for land owners to be punished or even grouse shoots to be blockaded or disrupted. It is completely unacceptable that the British governments have allowed this to happen and then they have the nerve to lecture other countries about rule of law, accountability, democracy. The way this issue is handled just shows how much of a feudal mindset the country is on still.

I think people should write to the Conservative mp for the area Nigel Evans and he local green party candidates. It may not be Nigel Evans as he is ribble valley and some of these area might fall under Lancaster and wyresdale.
 
I'd just like to add my belated sympathies and anger on this subject of the continued Hen Harrier persecution...[or rather execution]...:-C

The gamekeepers involved with these latest killings are unlikely to be caught in the act as they are obviously very clever in this respect and one presumes that they are laughing at our impotence...

I am reminded of a relevant line from one of my favourite films...[called Law Abiding Citizen]...which goes "Its not what you know, its what you can prove in court"

For any 'film buffs' out there you might remember the rather extreme lengths that Gerard Butler goes to exact revenge on the perpetrators of horrific killings...[and on the flawed legal system]...:eek!:

I dunno...perhaps we should appoint an unbiased investigator into these crimes...like Prince Harry...:smoke:

ps...my apologies in advance for the film reference to which you might not be aware....


http://username-beast.blogspot.co.uk/
 
Does anyone know if covert cameras could be deployed in Bowland? To me there is no better way of showing that gamekeepers, estate owners and shooting organisations who are happy to declare their "conservation" interests, are porky-pie-ers than showing their faces to the world when caught in their illegal acts.

It can surely only be a matter of time before a keeper is jailed in the pursuit of his job killing Hen Harriers. I can't think of too many "legit" jobs where breaking the law is paramount to meeting your obligation to your employer?
 
Robin Edwards said:
I can't think of too many "legit" jobs where breaking the law is paramount to meeting your obligation to your employer?
Click to expand...

To put it another way, any other industry which depends on law-breaking (e.g. drug-dealing) operates under the relentless pursuit of the judiciary, who are desperate to shut it down completely. In any other industry, involving oneself in the industry when it is evidently likely that one will be called upon to judge elements of it would be called a conflict of interest. Not declaring such and, as the Americans would say, recusing oneself, would be called corruption.

Members of the judiciary should be banned from shooting.

John
 
halftwo said:
I've just emailed Steve Mogford, Chief Exec. at United Utilities, I urge you all to do the same.
Click to expand...

Just wondering why ... as I understand it United Utilities on whose land the birds nest unmolested are the good guys and the birds, it is thought, were disposed of when they dispersed to hunt over grouse moors elsewhere.
 
Perhaps he was suggesting the landowners in question should have their water cut off - and their gamekeepers - and any industries from which they make money.....

John
 
Well, U.U. have already replied.
They say they are "supporting the police and the RSPB in their investigation."

John, do you know whose land borders U.U?
 
halftwo said:
Well, U.U. have already replied.
They say they are "supporting the police and the RSPB in their investigation."

John, do you know whose land borders U.U?
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert but I'm sure I remember hearing long ago that the Duke of Westminster owns an awful lot of that area. Definitely not one of the angels.

John
 
halftwo said:
Well, U.U. have already replied.
They say they are "supporting the police and the RSPB in their investigation."

John, do you know whose land borders U.U?
Click to expand...

That's what I'd surmised, but it's good to have it confirmed and good too that they took your enquiry so seriously in that the replied pretty promptly. I'm afraid I don't know who owns nearby estates. I'm sure someone here will have some idea. Since grouse moor owners sometimes put up signs telling people to stay on paths etc it might just be worth looking on Google Streetview ...
 
Absolutely appalling. I don't know the figures for sure, but elsewhere I've seen it suggested that there were 5 breeding pairs of Hen Harriers in England this year. If so this means 80% of "English" males have gone AWOL leaving behind a brooding female. I'm not sure what the 'average' might be, but I'll wager it's a hell of a lot less than 80%. I wonder how such a disproportionate level of disappearance on and around grouse moors can be explained .... I must ask that well known conservationist and harrier expert Beefy Botham.
 
A copy of my message on the Birds and Birding forum

More depressing news[Westmoreland Gazette today]


THE RSPB and Cumbria Police have launched an investigation after the unexplained disappearance of a nesting male hen harrier in the North Pennines.

The bird, which was nesting at the RSPB’s Geltsdale reserve, was last seen at the upland site on May 23. He set off hunting at around 7.15am and was last observed by RSPB nest protection staff at around 1pm.




Without the male returning to provide her with food, the female was forced to abandon her clutch of five eggs, resulting in the failure of the nest.


By the time RSPB staff were sure that the female had abandoned her nest, and that it was safe to approach it, her eggs had already gone cold and were no longer viable.

A 2008 government commissioned report found that it was rare in most places for male hen harriers to abandon an active nest (note).

Hen harriers are England’s most threatened breeding bird of prey with only four successful nests in the whole country last year.

Police are also calling for information after three male nesting hen harriers disappeared earlier in the season without explanation in Bowland, Lancashire.

Steve Garnett, upland warden at RSPB Geltsdale, said: “All of the staff and volunteers who were watching the nest around the clock over the past few weeks are absolutely gutted about the disappearance of the male and the failure of the eggs.”

Cumbria Police Wildlife Crime Officer Sarah Rolland said: “There is no criminal investigation surrounding the disappearance of the male bird at the current time. However, we appeal to anyone with information to come forward by calling Police on 101, as we are keen to trace the whereabouts of the bird.”

. .

Anyone with information about either of the missing birds should contact the police on 101 or the RSPB’s confidential hotline on 0845 466 3636
 
Looking forward to Mr Bothams response, I sincerely hope he doesn't expect to be addressed as Sir by the way, other adjectives spring to mind though.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 9 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

G
  • Article
Perfection Of The Simple Things
Replies
0
Views
638
Green Sandpiper
G
DavidST
Another Hen Harrier missing presumed shot !!
Replies
1
Views
2K
wolfbirder
wolfbirder
H
Birdwatching more locally
2 3
Replies
51
Views
5K
Mysticete
Mysticete
G
  • Article
Seasonally- Affected Birding
Replies
4
Views
998
Green Sandpiper
G
P
Latest from RSPB about Hen Harriers
Replies
2
Views
969
John Cantelo
John Cantelo

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top