Vintage and Classic Binoculars (1 Viewer)

aengus4h · Mar 27, 2019

Hensoldt Wetzlar jagd-dialyt 6x42

just got these in the mail today, was lucky to search just after they were listed at a bargain buy-now price, couldn't believe my luck! Sadly no case but I'll sort something suitable later. A little rough with lots of alloy corrosion but the leather covering intact just lifting slightly by the hinge in one spot. Has a slight chip in one prism edge that's visible thru the objective end but is outside the optical path so doesn't affect the image at all. Hinge very sloppy and dioptre very stiff.

So stripped it down and did a quick internal clean and freed up the dioptre, old grease was grey so maybe someone used lithium in the past and it'd set solid. Its now silicone greased on the mechanicals and reassembled. Hinge nice and steady and gives a lovely image. Objectives are a little loose (rattle) but can't yet remove the end rings, will need to free up the corrosion first, then look at cleaning up the metal and repaint it, so a nice little resto project down the road

No idea on the actual age, serial number 17966 but I've not found any references on these. I'm guessing c1936-43 given they're aluminium and lenses don't appear coated?

Gijs van Ginkel · Mar 27, 2019

The Jagd Dialyt 6x42 was first made in 1928 and "Leichtmetall Modellle"were made between 1936 and 1943. Considering the leather armament it seems to be the early model.
Gijs van Ginkel

aengus4h · Mar 27, 2019

Hi Gijs

I thought the early ones were zinc+brass tho not aluminium. Looking again at them its hard to say if its real leather or the plastic leather-effect as its very thin and sounds like tapping paper on the small area that's lifted.

Looks like some white traces inside the objective tubes too but not many. Am well pleased tho, was a great buy for £15

Dave

yarrellii · Mar 28, 2019

aengush4h, Out of curiosity, how is the view through those? What's the FOV like? Are those Schmidt-Pecham prisms? Given the age, I guess coatings are nothing to worry/ask about, but, what is it like? Really intriguing. At 6x the depth must be nice

The shape looks are so contemporary given their age.

aengus4h · Mar 28, 2019

Hi Yarrellii, not had a chance to determine the Fov, but it looks around 5.5 or so. The view is very nice, relaxed and natural colours with good detail I find looking out at the trees etc, tho I've not checked how sharp they are toward the edge but in daylight they seem very good and a nice depth of field.

I've not had the prisms out so can't confirm which type they are, didn't want to upset the alignment as they are spot on from a brief look at the stars before the clouds moved over last night. So cleaning the optics has been limited to the accessible surfaces with the occulars and objective tubes removed and that seems to have been sufficient.

At the mo this is probably the most premium glass in my collection, my newer ones are a Nikon M CF 7x15 and SportsterEX which are wider FoV and multicoated. Rest are older japanese single coated models. update - other than the minolta classic sport WP 10x50's that literally just arrived

Update:
Actually just went and compared with the Nikon 7x15 which has FoV or 7 degree and it's very similar on the dialyt so a wider view that I first thought

yarrellii · Mar 28, 2019

Dave, thanks, that was very kind of yours. Very interesting.
I just found some information regarding that model (I guess you might have seen it already, but just in case):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/8557074857
The article talks about 8º FOV and Abbe-König prisms! Really intriguing.
I've had some old binoculars (CZJ and some Japanese from the good-old days, JB-146), but nothing this old, looking so modern, hence my curiosity.
Enjoy and keep us posted on your restoration project!

aengus4h · Mar 28, 2019

thanks for that Yarellii, hadn't come across that one so far. So that'd make these 1945-46 perhaps then, and maybe found their way to the UK from the US, interesting.

The other oldest pair I have are these little J. Barkers Starlux Minim 6x20 reverse porro, likely 1930's-58 given they were taken over by Army and Navy in 58. Nice little pair, very compact and the leather case is proper thick solid leather too.

Again a nice relaxed view, prisms had some fungus that I've given an initial treatment with peroxide and UV zapped them, but will likely need to remove them to do a proper job. They've white plaster as well as the prism retainer strap so maybe french made. Not been able to find any history on them tho...

yarrellii · Mar 28, 2019

Those look really sweet, the objective lenses somehow remind me of Wall-E (I didn't know reverse porro went back that long in history). Looking at them I have suddenly remembered that some months ago we found some binoculars that belonged to our grandad. I had totally forgot about them; I've just taken a couple of pictures. They are a 7x18 ZUIHO, it says the lenses are coated, not sure how old are these. They're among the smallest I've ever seen. The optics look ir order (no fungus) but the eye lenses are so tiny that it makes you squint whenever you try to use them. I don't think I'll ever use them, but as an object they are indeed attractive.
Looking at your Wetzlar I was thinking (and then got the same notion regarding grandad's binoculars) that it is fascinating to think what those lenses might have seen; somehow like when you look at the hands or eyes of very aged people and you can't help a moment of awe, thinking all the things they have surely touched, made, done, felt. That's something special about binoculars, the fact that the light just goes in and goes out leaving no trace but our memories (OK, I digress

).

aengus4h · Mar 28, 2019

ahh yes, I've quite a few of that type, always loved the design being I guess a bit mech minded I like the way the design shows how it works if you see what I mean, minimalist and functional. I've some old Nippon Kogaku (Nikon)'s, Perl, Simor ranging from 5x15 to 15x50, all coated and nice to look at and use. Most are likely 60's to perhaps late 70's. I think only Nikon still make them now (M CF model). Take a look on miniaturebinoculars.com for some info on that type of binocular.

My first rebuild was on a Burleigh 10x50 japanese one, JB84/JE54 marked. A nice one but was way out of alignment, painfully so as well as one occular flapping loose. I figured for £5 I'd see what I could do with them and learn something new in the bargain. Now I've something like 25 useable pairs and a few more that need work or as parts, gotta stop!! Tho I'll still be tempted if something special comes along ;-)

yarrellii · Mar 28, 2019

aengus4h said:
I like the way the design shows how it works if you see what I mean, minimalist and functional

Exactly, absolutely agree. Tt is such an elegant way of saying "the how" does matter as well; and this is how it works; kind of reminded me of the Pompidou Centre in Paris showing all its guts inside out.

Now I've something like 25 useable pairs and a few more that need work or as parts, gotta stop!! Tho I'll still be tempted if something special comes along ;-)

OMG

aengus4h · Mar 29, 2019

yeah I know lol

I've not been able to loosen off the objectives as that outer ring doesn't want to turn so far. have dropped some oil around the edge which will hopefully creep into the threads eventually. No rush, I'd rather it took weeks and came apart intact than try brute force and wreck a lovely bino

I've a feeling that the lenses aren't fully secured by these rings though and perhaps some wax was used to seat them and fill the gap? I noted some dark greasy material came out of the edges under the beauty rings when I cleaned them.

If that's the case and I can't get the ring to free up I may just fill the gap with wax to stop the lenses rattling and touch the paint up as a last resort. Would prefer a full dismantle tho as the inner walls could do with the few crusty white traces cleaning up and matt painted so they can't affect the image quality or get worse over time.

Found this video on dismantling the prism carrier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwrTwkObra4

Interesting but I didn't have the set screws mentioned that secure the lower tubes, they just unscrewed from the body with little effort. Smear of silicone grease before reassembly made the threads run smoother and hopefully will prevent future deterioration.

aengus4h · Mar 31, 2019

ok so decided to do an initial restore and will revisit when I figure how to get the beauty rings to release. So I've stripped the outer metalwork back with a small wire wheel in a dremel-a-like and then washed out the objective tubes to remove any dust. Repainted the inside of the tubes with a flat black paint pen to cover out the corrosion traces, repainted with gloss black water based enamel, brush application so it'll need flatting and recoating in a couple places. Spray painting would've given a smoother finish but didn't want to risk that with glass still in place. I left the top of the occular arms as-was and put a layer of clear lacquer to preserve the original ID markings, a distressed look if you will. Black sealing wax wicked around the edge of the objectives, so now they don't rattle, hopefully will help reduce dust/moisture ingress too.

Tried to tease some glue under the plastic leather-effect cover by the hinge, awkward with the long edge of the hinge in the way so the plastic broke away, that's been re-glued into place now, hardly shows.

Resisted the temptation to strip it all off to find any hidden set screws (anyone want to share info on these?) that are preventing me removing the beauty rings and occular tubes. Will maybe do that once its falling apart and recover in leather further down the road if that ever happens, meantime it's in very good condition so may never need doing.

While not a perfect job nor the way I'd hoped to do it, its now looking much better and should stall any further deterioration. The focus and dioptre are now nice and smooth, hinge has just enough resistance to stay put nicely so its a very usable pair that I'm sure I'll enjoy having in the collection

aengus4h · Apr 4, 2019

yarrellii said:
aengush4h, Out of curiosity, how is the view through those? What's the FOV like? Are those Schmidt-Pecham prisms? Given the age, I guess coatings are nothing to worry/ask about, but, what is it like? Really intriguing. At 6x the depth must be nice The shape looks are so contemporary given their age.

Hi Yarrelli

took a couple pics to compare, not brilliantly done given I'm hand-holding both bino and phone and trying to get a workable image with the eye-relief etc, but I think it illustrates the difference in the scene. Should get a proper adapter one day, maybe...

Dialyt uncoated on the right, Minolta sport FMC 10x on the left. The minolta image is a lot brighter on this dull windy day, much as expected. Funny though the green & grey on the squirty bottle looks more accurate in the dialyt.

Either way for me I do like the view in the dialyts, relaxed and great depth of field so far less focus tweaking to follow movement.

aengus4h · Jun 6, 2019

adding to the hensolt dialyts, I decided to line the objective tubes with some black flocking material. Wow what a difference that made, pretty much no flare when the sun is close to on-axis and, maybe a placebo effect, image seems sharper too. I wasn't convinced the original smooth flat black painted interior was cutting it so decided it was worth a wee experiment with the flocking I had for the telescopes, very pleased with the result.

So did the same also to the Falcon 8x42's I have and again, much improved.

I just recently picked up a pair of foton 7x35's and very impressed, 1992 build and hardly marked, only a slight lift in the corners of the leatherette on the objective tubes. Had the instruction booklet in the case too.

Binastro · Jun 6, 2019

I like the Fotons. Usually very well made optics.
Does the leatherette smell? Mine still does after almost 20 years since bought new.

B.

aengus4h · Jun 7, 2019

Hi B., yes it does have a slight smell, tho not the odour reported of some old russian porro bin cases, just a leathery scent. Don't think these had much use at all tho the case shows some wear, perhaps just a very durable finish to the bino? It is missing the strap for the bino but that's minor to me, can easily sort something to suit. Only thing with the soft case is it distorts the rubber eyecups, but I had a couple spare lens caps that are a snug fit and that seems to have got them back to a regular shape once again so they'll be staying on while in the case. Totally agree re the build on these, very solid and everything moves smoothly with no slop, optically very sharp and the tubes well blackened internally so not found any flare in the little use I've been able to make of them so far.

42za · Jun 26, 2019

hello All,

A Carton Prisma 7 x 35 (JB87 no JE number)

Anyone have more information on these , it will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Binastro · Jun 27, 2019

Looks in good condition.
Korean or Japanese without sticker?
Small field.
Probably works well.

Single blue coatings on some surfaces?

Regards,
B.

P.S.
The Carton binocular is probably Japanese medium quality.

However, some of the Japanese Carton telescope objectives are very high quality.
Possibly used also in some high end British refractors?

Pinewood · Jun 27, 2019

Hello aengus4h,

I have the Foton 7x35. It is a nice glass even without phase coating. I suspect that phase coating is less important at 7x.
I kept the rubber eye cups down and now they split on the fold.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

42za · Jun 28, 2019

Binastro said:
Looks in good condition.
Korean or Japanese without sticker?
Small field.
Probably works well.

Single blue coatings on some surfaces?

Regards,
B.

P.S.
The Carton binocular is probably Japanese medium quality.

However, some of the Japanese Carton telescope objectives are very high quality.
Possibly used also in some high end British refractors?

Hello Binastro and thanks for the information.
This binocular is in good condition with no dust or fungus problems that I can see , it still performs very well if you take the narrow field of view and old technology into account.
I still use it frequently and am happy with it.
Cheers.

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