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Philosophical Question: Rescued Animals and Listing

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Old Sunday 5th May 2019, 20:59   #1
Alexjh1
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Philosophical Question: Rescued Animals and Listing

So I don't really think there is a right answer to this, so this is just seeing what other people make of this particular conundrum and where exactly the lines lie:

(Note, this is not about a bird in this case, but the theory would still apply so putting it in this section where more people might see it)

So, back on my Cambodia trip in February, when I went to Prek Toal, when we stopped off at the ranger centre to buy our admission tickets and pick up our guide, we went up to the main building, and when we came back down, someone had put this little fellow outside the rangers office.

He's a Slow Loris (Bengal I think?) and while I regret not asking at the time, my impression from the situation was that he was either being bought in having been rescued, or, being put there ready to be taken to release - the spot he was in definitely implied transition.

My question is; at what point does an animal stop being tickable if it's being rescued?

For comparrison;
I WOULD tick an injured animal that someone had just picked up to help (for instance, my tick of green sea turtle is a view of a baby one in someones hands after it had gone the wrong way up the beach and was being returned to the sea) or on a smaller scale, I just ticked a field mouse in a trap last week.

but

I WOULDN'T tick an animal in a pen at a rehabilitation sanctuary.

But at what point would the line be drawn - would this be a valid tick as it wasn't in a permenant resident enclosure, or would it not be because it was in a cage? If it was in the exact same transference situation but just being held by hand (bad idea given the venom) would that make a difference?

Just interested to hear different people's takes?
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Old Monday 6th May 2019, 07:58   #2
Mike C
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My personal point of view on this is that the creature be it bird, mammal, or etc. would have to be "free".
So, not in a ringer's hand or net. Never in a trap or in a cage. If you are prepared to tick something in a cage then, in my humble opinion, save yourself the trouble of travel and build a bigger list at your local zoological gardens.
I wouldn’t therefore tick the loris until free, the mouse until I had released it or the turtle until it was moving down the beach under its own steam.
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Old Monday 6th May 2019, 08:04   #3
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Applied to birds, I think you have to be there upon release to see the bird fly off?
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Old Monday 6th May 2019, 09:04   #4
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Mike:
Entirely valid stance, and honestly it only occured for me to bring this up because the chances of me seeing the loris actually in the wild at any point are very slender and I was pondering it in context of the mouse. At best I'm likely to just have it as a footnote/appendix to my mammal list, especially not knowing the full details.

But I think the line is whether the important factor is "wild" or "free", which are similar but not entirely overlapping concepts.
Both the mouse and the turtle were entirely wild animals that had never been kept/fed by humans or even maintained in any sense beyong that 20minutes and 1 minute respectively. They were wild, but for that duration not free.

On the opposite end, my local escaped harris hawk is entirely free but not wild - it only exists where it is because of humans, and wouldn't be ticked in any sort of listing sense because it is a human induced anomaly.

Obviously an animal in a zoo is neither.

Is your hypothesis that it must be both wild AND free to count?

Andy: That's a totally solid definition, and certainly what I'd use with birds which I actively rather than passively list.
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Old Wednesday 8th May 2019, 07:12   #5
Mike C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexjh1 View Post
Mike:

Is your hypothesis that it must be both wild AND free to count?
All in my own humble opinion, of course, but these are my rules for my list(s) but Wild and Free is a good way of putting it.
Judging whether your Harris Hawk is an escapee or a genuine vagrant - I guess we all think that it's probably the former (in the UK) = not tickable (although I note, it is your list, include what ever you want)

As I said, a bird in a ringer's hand or net = not tickable.
However, if when the ringer releases said bird and it moves away, it becomes tickable again. That's the only reason I have Lanceolated Warbler on my UK life list.

Therefore, if the rescuer releases the turtle and you see it as it scurries into the sea - it's a tick.

If you see the mouse before or after it's in the trap (assuming it survives trapping) - it's a tick. I only have Scilly Shrew (Lesser White-toothed Shrew - Crocidura suaveolens) on my list because I came across a farmer releasing one into a stone wall (it got stock in a deep bowl in his shed).

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Old Wednesday 8th May 2019, 18:13   #6
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Just in case, wild slow loris are not very difficult to see in Sepilok and Danum in Malaysia.
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Old Friday 10th May 2019, 10:03   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jurek View Post
Just in case, wild slow loris are not very difficult to see in Sepilok and Danum in Malaysia.
Several species e.g Slender are not that hard to find on a night walk in various places.
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