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An Old Flame Revisited - the Zeiss 10x40 BGAT/P (1 Viewer)

james holdsworth

Consulting Biologist
I recently acquired a minty specimen Zeiss 10x40 BGAT/P, later run with what I would assume to be the most-up-to-date coatings etc. This specimen is virtually unmarked, with pristine optics and near perfect mechanicals - about 2mm lash in the focus is about the only thing to harp on.

I have a leatherette version 10x40 BT and hoped that scratched my itch for this model, but the BT’s perfect cosmetic condition as well as its' mediocre optical performance meant it sat on the shelf more as a monument to the company than a useful tool. So, thoughts went to the BGAT version. As a young bird bander in the early 80's, I saw this model slung from the necks of the many imported brit / euro birders than manned the banding station at Long Point. It was this model that showed me that a binocular could be desirable, beautiful as well as useful and practical. At the time I was blissfully happy with my 7x35 Skylines and any thought of dropping a grand on a bino was complete fantasy....then I was lucky to make a few thousand for my entire year! But I told myself, when I have the money I will have that binocular. As it happened, when I got the money, the only premium brand I could actually buy anywhere near my small town was a Bausch and Lomb Elite - so I went that route and the Zeiss were temporarily forgotten.

So, fast forward and I'm thinking that I've got many iconic Zeiss models but lack that actual model that started me down the collector path in the 1st place, the model of Zeiss that I still consider the most handsome, the most iconic and the most emblematic of the brand. Reading most of the reviews, one could expect an optic to nearly rival today’s top glass. I remember when 1st joining the forum, I opined vigorously that my 14 year old Elite was just as good as all the alpha stuff people were spending way too much time talking about. I also remember Henry telling me that, if you had the chance to compare them directly with current glass, it would be likely my opinion would change. Henry was, of course, correct and the same could certainly be said of the Zeiss 10x40 BGAT/P.

Optical impressions? Well, quaint and nostalgic come to mind. I remember thinking how brilliant, how sharp and contrasty these were when I was young. Fairly or not, they cannot compete with even mid-tier binoculars of today and, considering this model was a standard bearer at the time, reminds me that optics [roofs at least] have improved quite vastly over the past twenty years.

The view, for the era, was indeed sharp and contrasty but, in direct comparison with my mid 90’s Elite, contrast is a bit lower than that model. Something striking right off the bat, especially in Ontario’s gray and overcast winter norms, is a rather weak and dull colour saturation, mostly due to low transmission – looking like something in the low 80’s. But matters are not helped by whites being distinctly yellowish and the colour balance skewed towards brownish-red.

The field is well corrected but blighted by what seems to be AMD, causing edges to squeeze and roll, especially side to side. What you end up with is minor but annoying rolling ball. This same characteristic is found in the much older pre P version of the 10x40 and I would have thought, after more than 10 years, Zeiss would have chosen to correct this. Apparently not a big deal for most as this trait is rarely mentioned when someone does a current review of this binocular, which I might assume is individual sensitivity.

CA correction is good centrally with some being visible towards the edges with some inducement. Like its’ Dialyt brothers, simpler designs seem less likely to produce objectionable CA. A fair bit is visible on flying birds, in back-lit conditions though.

Glare / flare control is poor. Peripheral bright light produces annoying flickering flare at the field edges. Strong forward lighting causes an almost total veiling glare washout. Spill-light, getting behind the rubber eyecups, also contributes to lower contrast images. Again, this poor stray-light control is hardly mentioned in modern and historic reviews.

Funny thing, the 10x40’s smaller brother, the 8x30 BGAT/P, that shares the same chassis, is better optically – better whites, better colour fidelity and less field distortion but suffers from some of the same stray light control problems. Then again, the 7x42 BGAT/P is considerably better than either – brighter, more saturated colours and a more contrasty, more contemporary view.

Overall, I wasn’t really that disappointed in the performance, having viewed most reviews as likely coloured by ownership bias. I bought it for looks and as an iconic part of my collection, as well as occasional field use. Having bins like this to switch up from time to time reinforces the positive attributes of my more modern glass. I guess no one expects a 20 year old Porsche to compete with a contemporary model and they should be driven with a realization that time and development were bound to improve the breed. They are a handy pair though, so trim and light in the hand and look cool around one’s neck, even if the view isn’t world-beating.
 

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James:

Thanks for the memories, you explain things very well. I also have a collector bug, but not experience
going back to the days when these were used as mainstream.

I have had a late model 10x40 BTP, for several years, and have commented how much I like this binocular.
I like to compare it with the Conquest HD 10x42, and even though the Conquest is somewhat better, the
10x40 does very well even today.

I recently obtained a 7x42 BT*P*, and now I know why this model is raved about on here. What a nice,
easy and wide view.
The 10x40 Dialyt does things in a very nice compact way, I really like how it handles.

Size wise, just see how it compares to the 7x42, and 10x42 SF.

I would like to see some photos of your 8x30 alongside of your other dialyts. I really like older binoculars,
as in I have tried the best, now I go back to the older best.

Jerry
 

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Hello James,

I had the Zeiss 1Ox40 BGTP*, for a short time when Cabela’s sold out the remaining stock, maybe fourteen years ago. No matter how much I tried, I could not hold it steady enough to use. However, I did find it to be a fine instrument. Contrary to popular thought, I could hold a Zeiss 10x32 FL much more easily. Since it does not have true internal focussing, the 10x40 may not have been too poor in suppressing CA.

Yes, the 7x42 BGATP* is an exceptional binocular but it has a different design from either the 8x30 or the 10x40 Dialyts, using Abbe-Koenig prisms longer focal length objective lenses.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
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Hi Arthur,

My story is similar. I bought two 10x40 BGAT*P specimens from Eagle Optics about 14 yrs. ago and returned them for various reasons. (A pungent odor from the rubber being one of them.) Several years later I acquired a used 7x42 BGAT*P and have been happy ever since. The pungent odor evaporated after a year or so, so I guess they had been stored in a hot enclosure. Armor-All keeps them healthy. They're keepers.

Ed

PS. What do you mean by: "Since it does not have true internal focusing, the 10x40 may not have been too poor in suppressing CA."
 
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Hi Arthur,

...
PS. What do you mean by: "Since it does not have true internal focusing, the 10x40 may not have been too poor in suppressing CA."

Hello Ed,

Both the 10x40 and 8x30 ClassiCs focus by the objective lenses moving in the barrels. If you look through the objective ens you can see the lenses move. The 7x42 ClassiC has a traditonal bridge moving eyepieces. The Zeiss Victory, Victory FL, HT and FS all have internal focussing.

I have been advised that true internal focussing adds chromatic aberration to the view.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
Wow James what a great find. Your description took me right back to the many years, decades almost, that this bino was my one and only do-it-all bino. The moving objective acts like an air pump and I can tell you that weird things happen to the feel of the focus if you use it while flying high on a transcontinental flight in a pressurised cabin.

I visited a dealer in the UK a couple of months ago who had two 8x30 T*P* BGA s on his shelf and my wallet nearly popped out of my pocket on its own.

However it compares to current binos it is still a great one. Congratulations.

Lee
 
...
I would like to see some photos of your 8x30 alongside of your other dialyts. I really like older binoculars,
as in I have tried the best, now I go back to the older best.

Jerry

Hello Jerry,

I am attaching a photo of my 8x30 BGATP Dialyt. It must be a late model as it was bought as a closeout. Since it lacks internal focussing the nearest focussing is 3.2m, which I thought was quite adequate. Too many people seem to think that a bird watcher needs closer focussing.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 

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I agree it is this configuration (10x40) that is the most iconic of the Dialyt range, although the 7x42 is more desired today. This is the model that consistently led the reviews in British Birds for some 20 or so years. Obviously things are much different today image-wise. As ND has noted, image quality of the Conquest 10x42 HD (which I tried at Birdfair 2017, and which now retails for around twice the price of what P model 10x40s seem to go for) is better - brighter, thanks to dieletric prism coatings and better lens coatings, probably a tad sharper across the board, and cleaner. The silver mirrors of that era seem to produce a slight yellow, some would say warm, cast to the image, also apparent in the 8x30SLC mark II - it would be interesting to see if Leica BA/BN users also notice this - that is most noticeable in grey or hazy conditions.

My P model 10x40 is used less often now as I have come to prefer a 10x50 for longer distance observation and a wide field 8x32 or 8x30 for shorter-range work. However, I still rely on it when travelling, where its compactness really shines. Recently I spent a month in Singapore with this and an 8x32 FL and ended up using them about equally. Veiling glare, commented upon by James, manifests itself under the right (or wrong) conditions - I think it is a little better in this respect than the 8x30 SLC mark II, but not, of course, comparable to the latest top glass eg. the Noctivid. I didn't notice CA myself, despite spending a fair bit of time on ernesti peregrines, which appear virtually black, in the sky. The yellow colour cast, to my eyes, goes unnoticed in bright tropical sun (similarly to when I have used it on other holidays in Spain). But the main strongpoints of this model now are its compactness and ease of handling. I still find it the easiest to hold steady and one that best fits my hands of the 10xs I have tried.

Some photos from last month, with urban parkland in the background. There is quite a bit of this sort of ground in Singapore, complete with interesting - at least to the typical UK birdwatcher - critters such as bee-eaters, forest pigeons, kingfishers, etc.
 

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Hello Jerry,

I am attaching a photo of my 8x30 BGATP Dialyt. It must be a late model as it was bought as a closeout. Since it lacks internal focussing the nearest focussing is 3.2m, which I thought was quite adequate. Too many people seem to think that a bird watcher needs closer focussing.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

Lovely binos Arthur. I was looking at two used Dialyt 8x30 BGATs quite recently but they were not special editions like yours and my funds are already committed for this year!

Of course you are right that birders do not need so close focusing but fortunately for those who do not specialise in only birds, bino manufacturers make them for other people too, with close focus distances that make them suitable for a very wide range of subjects.

Lee
 
James:

Thanks for the memories, you explain things very well. I also have a collector bug, but not experience
going back to the days when these were used as mainstream.

I have had a late model 10x40 BTP, for several years, and have commented how much I like this binocular.
I like to compare it with the Conquest HD 10x42, and even though the Conquest is somewhat better, the
10x40 does very well even today.

I recently obtained a 7x42 BT*P*, and now I know why this model is raved about on here. What a nice,
easy and wide view.
The 10x40 Dialyt does things in a very nice compact way, I really like how it handles.

Size wise, just see how it compares to the 7x42, and 10x42 SF.

I would like to see some photos of your 8x30 alongside of your other dialyts. I really like older binoculars,
as in I have tried the best, now I go back to the older best.

Jerry

Hello Jerry,

I just had a look at your photo and am wondering what your middle pair of binoculars is. The 7x42 Dialyt B on the left is familiar: I have one and it is one of my favourites - only bought it in 2018. The middle one looks nice and compact but as only a recent beginner to birding I have no idea what it is.

Many thanks,

Tom

Edit: perhaps I'm a bit slow in view of the earlier posts: is this an 8x30?
 
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Hello Jerry,

I just had a look at your photo and am wondering what your middle pair of binoculars is. The 7x42 Dialyt B on the left is familiar: I have one and it is one of my favourites - only bought it in 2018. The middle one looks nice and compact but as only a recent beginner to birding I have no idea what it is.

Many thanks,

Tom

Edit: perhaps I'm a bit slow in view of the earlier posts: is this an 8x30?

Tom:

The one pictured in the center is the 10x40 B, the subject of the thread.

I thought it good to see how it is sized, compared to the 7x42 and the
newer Victory SF.


Jerry
 
I recently acquired a minty specimen Zeiss 10x40 BGAT/P, later run with what I would assume to be the most-up-to-date coatings etc. This specimen is virtually unmarked, with pristine optics and near perfect mechanicals - about 2mm lash in the focus is about the only thing to harp on.

I have a leatherette version 10x40 BT and hoped that scratched my itch for this model, but the BT’s perfect cosmetic condition as well as its' mediocre optical performance meant it sat on the shelf more as a monument to the company than a useful tool. So, thoughts went to the BGAT version. As a young bird bander in the early 80's, I saw this model slung from the necks of the many imported brit / euro birders than manned the banding station at Long Point. It was this model that showed me that a binocular could be desirable, beautiful as well as useful and practical. At the time I was blissfully happy with my 7x35 Skylines and any thought of dropping a grand on a bino was complete fantasy....then I was lucky to make a few thousand for my entire year! But I told myself, when I have the money I will have that binocular. As it happened, when I got the money, the only premium brand I could actually buy anywhere near my small town was a Bausch and Lomb Elite - so I went that route and the Zeiss were temporarily forgotten.

So, fast forward and I'm thinking that I've got many iconic Zeiss models but lack that actual model that started me down the collector path in the 1st place, the model of Zeiss that I still consider the most handsome, the most iconic and the most emblematic of the brand. Reading most of the reviews, one could expect an optic to nearly rival today’s top glass. I remember when 1st joining the forum, I opined vigorously that my 14 year old Elite was just as good as all the alpha stuff people were spending way too much time talking about. I also remember Henry telling me that, if you had the chance to compare them directly with current glass, it would be likely my opinion would change. Henry was, of course, correct and the same could certainly be said of the Zeiss 10x40 BGAT/P.

Optical impressions? Well, quaint and nostalgic come to mind. I remember thinking how brilliant, how sharp and contrasty these were when I was young. Fairly or not, they cannot compete with even mid-tier binoculars of today and, considering this model was a standard bearer at the time, reminds me that optics [roofs at least] have improved quite vastly over the past twenty years.

The view, for the era, was indeed sharp and contrasty but, in direct comparison with my mid 90’s Elite, contrast is a bit lower than that model. Something striking right off the bat, especially in Ontario’s gray and overcast winter norms, is a rather weak and dull colour saturation, mostly due to low transmission – looking like something in the low 80’s. But matters are not helped by whites being distinctly yellowish and the colour balance skewed towards brownish-red.

The field is well corrected but blighted by what seems to be AMD, causing edges to squeeze and roll, especially side to side. What you end up with is minor but annoying rolling ball. This same characteristic is found in the much older pre P version of the 10x40 and I would have thought, after more than 10 years, Zeiss would have chosen to correct this. Apparently not a big deal for most as this trait is rarely mentioned when someone does a current review of this binocular, which I might assume is individual sensitivity.

CA correction is good centrally with some being visible towards the edges with some inducement. Like its’ Dialyt brothers, simpler designs seem less likely to produce objectionable CA. A fair bit is visible on flying birds, in back-lit conditions though.

Glare / flare control is poor. Peripheral bright light produces annoying flickering flare at the field edges. Strong forward lighting causes an almost total veiling glare washout. Spill-light, getting behind the rubber eyecups, also contributes to lower contrast images. Again, this poor stray-light control is hardly mentioned in modern and historic reviews.

Funny thing, the 10x40’s smaller brother, the 8x30 BGAT/P, that shares the same chassis, is better optically – better whites, better colour fidelity and less field distortion but suffers from some of the same stray light control problems. Then again, the 7x42 BGAT/P is considerably better than either – brighter, more saturated colours and a more contrasty, more contemporary view.

Overall, I wasn’t really that disappointed in the performance, having viewed most reviews as likely coloured by ownership bias. I bought it for looks and as an iconic part of my collection, as well as occasional field use. Having bins like this to switch up from time to time reinforces the positive attributes of my more modern glass. I guess no one expects a 20 year old Porsche to compete with a contemporary model and they should be driven with a realization that time and development were bound to improve the breed. They are a handy pair though, so trim and light in the hand and look cool around one’s neck, even if the view isn’t world-beating.

Thank you, James. A year late to the party but I enjoyed your review. I have the 7x42 BG/AT*P* and enjoy it for occasional use, its nice view, cool looks, and good handling. I have never seen the 10x40 but was just reading from Alexis how it was -the- glass a few decades ago.

Tom
 
Another year, another visit to Singapore...I know, Greta would disapprove. I have been cutting down on overseas trips though (thanks in part to straitened circumstances) and my mother's disapproval is more to be feared than Greta's, so ...

Having acquired an 8x42 FL (black) a couple months earlier, and with regular use found it very impressive, I was tempted to bring it along. But over there the closer look you get at the birds with 10x, especially as so many even quite commonplace species are refreshingly different (assorted sunbirds, black-naped orioles, coconut lorikeets) to a UK visitor, counts for more than absolute image quality. Also, I had never really felt disadvantaged using the old Dialyt there, its main shortcoming compared to modern binoculars (slightly less brightness) being much less of an issue in bright tropical light. So it made the trip instead.

I had the 7x42 P model available to use while I was there, and did use it a fair bit at first, but as the days and weeks went by I found myself relying on the 10x40 much more. When using one binocular this regularly, you can get it set up absolutely perfectly and become really familiar with how best to look through it, so that you can wring out every last ounce of detail with it. I found the experience of using this 10x40 as enjoyable as ever - I appreciate that a larger binocular offers optical advantages, but there is something very nice about having such a well packaged binocular in the hand. Probably the most memorable moment this trip was being able to take a really good look at a crested goshawk that brought a kill to a tree not far away from my viewpoint at Telok Blangah Park. It was only there for several seconds, but that was long enough for me to drink in all the detail that the 10x, at that short distance, could give me - the bright flaring eye that the Accipiter hawks have, the rich chestnut colour of the sides of its neck, and the streaks and patterns of its underside. Moments like these are indeed moments to be savoured.

I have on occasion considered disposing of mine, but keep deciding to hang onto them because they are so useful when travelling, and also for use during the brighter light of summer. Sometimes, as with things like my old single-coated porros, what a binocular is like to use counts for more than what it shows.
 

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