City Knockabouts Viper 6x32 vs Nikon 7 8x30 (1 Viewer)

I briefly had a pair of Vipers in 6x but stupidly let them go to help fund something else. Now I am sick of my decision and think I want another small handy pair to use in the neighborhood parks, fitness walks, taking the dogs to the canal, and playing with at lunch.

I enjoyed the heck out of the Vipers but I thought they were a bit bulky for a 32mm, had a touch too small fov for what should be possible with a 6x, and had glare/veiling issues at sunset. It didn't bother me so very badly because I figured I would have to at least triple my money to cure those problems; plus I was super pleased with the sharpness and colors of my copy. The view may have sometimes lacked magnification but I was elated with how pretty and relaxed everything was. It was simply fun to look through them.

But...the Nikon 7 8x30 has less bulk and weight and a larger fov at greater power for less money. It will be less comfortable to use though, I am one of those that does feel a pleasant difference between using a 4mm exit pupil and a 5+ exit pupil.

It seems that if I get a shiny Nikon with poor contrast that the factory has a partial fix for that but what concerns me is that the Nikon 7 8x30 seems to lose every single comparison I can find in regards to sharpness and resolution (a sharp crisp feeling and focus is probably my favorite bino quality).

Just how poor is the acuity in these Monarch 7 30mm models for you all that have one?

I know the best answer is to order them both at the same time and then report my conclusions, but for the sake of discussion, which do you think you would lean towards for a town beater?

ps...I think anything smaller than 25mm would feel gimmicky to my hands and eyes

Inquisitor said:

It was simply fun to look through them.

Click to expand...

This is an appealing quality for a daily use bino and I would throw into the mix the Kenko DH MS 8x32 purely for that reason.

Worth a look although they may not be as readily available as the Vortex.

Kenko DH MS 8x32 : http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/452/limit/recent

I've returned from a 2.5 hour walk on a day of 100% cloud cover with an overall winter gloom/mist along a river, through woodland and onto marshes with the Monarch 7 8x30. If it exhibits glare, i obviously don't know what it is. I find it very sharp, particularly at the centre, wide (for its size) and surprisingly bright. They didn't let me down today, and that was about as bad a light as i'd be prepared to bother birding in.
I know others on this forum have experienced problems, and once or twice, i've let stray light into the oculars, but this is usually remedied by re-positioning. I'm really glad i bought them, and look for all sorts of reasons to take them out.
I reckon you should get hold of a pair and try them for whatever trial period you're entitled to with the retailer; give them a run in poor light and see what you think!
Paddy

Inquisitor said:

I briefly had a pair of Vipers in 6x but stupidly let them go to help fund something else. Now I am sick of my decision and think I want another small handy pair to use in the neighborhood parks, fitness walks, taking the dogs to the canal, and playing with at lunch.

I enjoyed the heck out of the Vipers but I thought they were a bit bulky for a 32mm, had a touch too small fov for what should be possible with a 6x, and had glare/veiling issues at sunset. It didn't bother me so very badly because I figured I would have to at least triple my money to cure those problems; plus I was super pleased with the sharpness and colors of my copy. The view may have sometimes lacked magnification but I was elated with how pretty and relaxed everything was. It was simply fun to look through them.

But...the Nikon 7 8x30 has less bulk and weight and a larger fov at greater power for less money. It will be less comfortable to use though, I am one of those that does feel a pleasant difference between using a 4mm exit pupil and a 5+ exit pupil.

It seems that if I get a shiny Nikon with poor contrast that the factory has a partial fix for that but what concerns me is that the Nikon 7 8x30 seems to lose every single comparison I can find in regards to sharpness and resolution (a sharp crisp feeling and focus is probably my favorite bino quality).

Just how poor is the acuity in these Monarch 7 30mm models for you all that have one?

I know the best answer is to order them both at the same time and then report my conclusions, but for the sake of discussion, which do you think you would lean towards for a town beater?

ps...I think anything smaller than 25mm would feel gimmicky to my hands and eyes

Click to expand...

Interesting to read your opinion about Viper 6x32. You don't mention if it's HD or the first version, but I think you mean the HD?
I have the HD model and I very much feel the same as you describe about it.
Since earlier I have Leupold Katmai 6x32 which has served me well. The size is more compact than Viper HD and is slightly more comfortable to carry around.
However, Viper HD fulfills what I missed with the Katmai: the sharpness and contrast could be better. But Viper HD is razor sharp(not very good at the edges, though), and probably it's the last binocular in my collection I would get rid of.

8x30,s

paddy7 said:

I've returned from a 2.5 hour walk on a day of 100% cloud cover with an overall winter gloom/mist along a river, through woodland and onto marshes with the Monarch 7 8x30. If it exhibits glare, i obviously don't know what it is. I find it very sharp, particularly at the centre, wide (for its size) and surprisingly bright. They didn't let me down today, and that was about as bad a light as i'd be prepared to bother birding in.
I know others on this forum have experienced problems, and once or twice, i've let stray light into the oculars, but this is usually remedied by re-positioning. I'm really glad i bought them, and look for all sorts of reasons to take them out.
I reckon you should get hold of a pair and try them for whatever trial period you're entitled to with the retailer; give them a run in poor light and see what you think!
Paddy

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Hi paddy
Well I hardly know anything better than my 8x30 bino,s by charles frank Its When you mentioned overcast day that Immediately I agree with you as far As clarity go,s and brightness in over 40 years of useing mine I have always Been satisfied in such light conditions perhaps more so at (times) than when Its clearer the best of both worlds only by the regular use of what you use do you begin to experience what qualitys your binoculars hold its always the Lower magnifications which will be restful on your eyes but between a 8x30 and a 8x32 its a personal choice but for me I would Imagine both these optic,s regarding quality as well will always find a place as a good Reliable Sturdy but not to heavy trust worthy binocular and can cope enough to keep You happy in the field.

Inquisitor said:

ps...I think anything smaller than 25mm would feel gimmicky to my hands and eyes

Click to expand...

I personally think you are dead on here. I know that a lot of folks love their x20s (especially Leica and Zeiss) but they just don't do it for me. I DID purchase a set of Alpen 8x20 EDs a couple years ago for a "spare" but I just don't care for the tiny exit pupils and finicky eye placement. I'm sure they'll be listed for sale as soon as I get off my lazy behind and go find the box. That may be weeks...

The Vipers rock though! I have a pair of 6x32 HDs,

Thanks to all that have posted

I have been thinking about this almost non-stop for a couple of days.

I don't really need a true 8x32 since I already have a Euro HD 8x32 that I really like. The Nikon 7 should be approaching 6 oz lighter than these. I imagine that is enough to make quite a difference when it is hanging on my neck for hours at time.

Also, I noticed from some photo submissions that this Nikon seems to have a cooler cleaner color bias than many other binos. I know this will be a quite different than my Euros which are intentionally warm and contrasty on the earthy and gamey color tones. This is one reason I am not interested in the Leupold Mohave.

Conversely, my Kowa 6x30 is quite white and bright and nearly as sharp in the center (though the sweet spot is smaller and color is not as good) as the Viper 6x while having even better depth of field for making sense out of forest scenes. The price difference is crazy.

I have committed myself to the idea of trying the Nikons while I can still remember what I liked about the Viper 6x.

SwedePat, I had the HD version back in early December. I am sorry I let them go.

During lunch I took my 6x Kowas and 8x32 Euros and got to comparing them. I preferred the ease of the Kowas until I saw something I wanted to look at and then I was happy to make the switch.

I am realized that for me this is not a which one to buy question but which one to buy first. I can't get the magic of the 6x Vipers out of my head but I feel that for the stuff I posted in the OP that wider field and lighter weight will make the Nikon a more logical and versatile choice for an all around everyday bin.

I decided to roll the dice on a factory refurbished Nikon that comes with a 30 day return policy and a 90 day factory warranty. It saves me $80 dollars that I can later put back towards the Viper.

I am a little scared of the refurbished part but am trying to be optimistic and tell myself that it means that they have likely had above average hands on attention and are theoretically guaranteed to be within factory specs. I am also hoping they have already had the shiny contrast robbing parts blackened a little bit.

I will report whether or not they are keepers.

I hate to add confusion, but an inability to pick between 6x30 and 8x32, which
are very different, to me, could suggest a look at 7x35 or 7x30.

7x really can be a great compromise.
I've used old 7x35s a lot lately in the snow. The 2014 6.5x32s and 8x30s can be very
painful to look through because of all the sharp violet-shifted lighting. They also
close down my irises so I can't see as deep into the woods on a sunny day.

OPTIC_NUT said:

I hate to add confusion, but an inability to pick between 6x30 and 8x32, which
are very different, to me, could suggest a look at 7x35 or 7x30.

7x really can be a great compromise.
I've used old 7x35s a lot lately in the snow. The 2014 6.5x32s and 8x30s can be very
painful to look through because of all the sharp violet-shifted lighting. They also
close down my irises so I can't see as deep into the woods on a sunny day.

Click to expand...

The difference between them is enough that I have already realized that I need the both eventually. I think would enjoy the Viper more optically but for the knockabout walking bin mentioned in the OP I think I should try the little Monarchs for the weight savings. Indeed they have already been ordered.

I got to hold a Celestron 7x33 today. It was pretty intriguing but heavier than I think the Nikon will be. I thought it well enough made, bright, clear, sharp but with a smallish sweetspot to go with that field. This was just looking down the street in the doorway of the shop ( I was outside). I did see CA but I can in most anything, including 2k glass.

I am definetly going to take my $299 Nikon back (when it arrives) and compare it to the $319 7x33 to make sure I dont need to switch.

That is a somethig I have never thought about....a binouclar being so bright that constricts your eye....pretty counter productive if you are after brightness. Wouldn't that increase the f-ratio and help with sharpness though?

Increasing f-ratio doesn't technically increase sharpness
(it can even reduce it via diffraction) , but it does
increase your personal depth of field...

The constriction of the iris isn't very fun in this case. The blindingly bright
snow patches force other sections of the field into darkness because of that,
and the intense blue-violet cast of the snow depletes your receptors so when
you look away there are dark blotches. Snow blindness happens even without
binoculars, but with them it spoils the dimmer parts of the field. They call this
'white blowout' in cameras....the contrast implodes and the white parts have no
detail because the sensor is pegged. Sometimes full-spectrum is a bad idea, like
when it burns out vision or diffuses details in haze.

I had both, I got blackout with both so I returned them.
Otherwise they were good binos.

Most unfortunate...blackouts are sort of a modern plague.
Maybe about 30% of binocs the past 20 yrs, about 5% from the 1950s... my guess.

Anyway, going to a real shop and auditioning units seems crucial,
since "blackouts" and "knockabout" usage are natural enemies.

I never heard of "blackout" being caused by too short an eye relief. I experience blackouts only with eye relief that is too long. If the eye relief is too short for you, it means you can't get your eye close enough to see the full field, that's all. Am I otherwise missing something here?

Blackouts are usually in the category of 'too long eye relief', but some actually occur up close.
I prefer to call the problem "forced eye relief"....the design punishes the eye element with severe aberration
if it's in the wrong location. Much more common if you are nearsighted and using things uncorrected.
Moderns are almost entirely long-side. Compacts are sometimes near-side. Classics are rarely either
but when they are, more often to the near side. Given roughly 150 owned and store-auditioned models.

If you really like a modern other than the blackouts and it has a wide EP,
it might be worth adding a little pipe or innertube section to fixture it properly
when the eyecup can't. Or if you have the space to spare, go Meopta.
They know what they are doing with eyecups for forced-long, and for glasses,
and even for nearsighted placement.

Thanks, O_N, I did forget about some instances where I placed my eye too close, but that was looking through a telescope eyepiece. Just for fun (I'm easily entertained) I got out a Tele Vue 6 mm Radian eyepiece, and lo and behold... my eye can get too close. I guess that's why the eyepiece is built with a retractable eyecup so that one can place his/her eye in the most effective position.