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mysterious swallow. NW Poland 26.11.2014

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Old Thursday 13th February 2020, 13:55   #1
Ryszard
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mysterious swallow. NW Poland 26.11.2014

Hi

Is it possible to exclude swallows number 1 and 2 from these photos?

1. Delichon urbicum
2. Riparia riparia
3. something else

Regards

Ryszard
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Old Thursday 13th February 2020, 15:02   #2
Larry Sweetland
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Looks like a House Martin
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Old Thursday 13th February 2020, 19:38   #3
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Wouldn't it look more "contrasty" if it was one? This bird looks quite dull/uniform, possibly too much so for either House or Sand Martin. I wonder about Ptyonoprogne sp, especially given that any hirundine would be unlikely so far north in late November...
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Old Thursday 13th February 2020, 19:49   #4
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They are difficult images to judge tone and contrast, my first overall impression was a Crag Martin type but from what I can see the tail looks wrong - perhaps just closed in those images but looking too long winged in no.4 for that species. Some H. Martin's can look quite pale, particularly Eastern birds I recall. On these photos I would say it is unidentifiable to a species.

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Old Thursday 13th February 2020, 20:00   #5
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Given that Crag Martin is not on the Polish list, is this bird "just" a bleached and worn Sand Martin?
P
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 14:10   #6
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I know that this bird cannot be labeled as a species. It's enough for me that it's not Hause Martin or Sand Martin. Although it would be nice if someone managed to isolate several species that are most likely.
* "bleached and worn Sand Martin" seems to me much less likely than if it were a bird from Africa, Asia and North America. The more that I am lucky to find rare birds in my area
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 16:06   #7
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Pic 3 clearly shows a white rump - House Martin no doubt. Not commenting on the others
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 16:14   #8
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I agree that it’s probably a House Martin but what did it look like to you as it was flying about Ryszard, you managed four photos so presumably you watched it through binoculars to begin with?
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 16:34   #9
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Asian House Martin would be a (very rare) option to consider this late in the year - a main distinguishing feature from House Martin would be black underwing coverts. Not sure what I can see in these pics.
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 16:42   #10
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I remember that the bird flew very chaotically, often changed direction. Through binoculars I saw that it is a swift or swallow and I started taking pictures without thinking.
Shouldn't Hause Martin have a two-colored tail like I presented in the picture?
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 17:02   #11
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I'm a bit confused. Do all photos show the same bird or not?
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 17:10   #12
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All photos = the same bird
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 18:02   #13
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Then it has to be a House Martin - question is which ssp.? Not possible to tell from this pics. It is not too unusual to see House Martins in November - I know of a few records in NE Germany in the last decade...
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 20:00   #14
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ok. but i still don't understand why my bird's tail is one color?
In the pictures below I have drawn examples of the colors of the tail of Haus Martin and Pale Crag Martin and my bird.
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 20:06   #15
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Originally Posted by Ryszard View Post
ok. but i still don't understand why my bird's tail is one color?
In the pictures below I have drawn examples of the colors of the tail of Haus Martin and Pale Crag Martin and my bird.
I think it shows a pale under-tail with partial shadow along the total length.

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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 22:11   #16
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I think it is a House Martin, for example pale/white undertail, and a hint of paler underwing coverts on pic 3.

Digital cameras produce such leaks of color that it is fully possible to make uppertail white because of the sun glare.

Actually, there are now so many poor but potentially interesting bird pics, that one might investigate how exactly digital cameras transform colors. It could help such cases.
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 02:35   #17
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No offence but those are crappy photos. I'd focus on features which are most obvious. In this case the white rump that can be seen (or guessed) on pic 3...
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 12:38   #18
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thanks so much for your usefull help!
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 14:26   #19
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Yes it seems to have a white rump in pics 3 and 4. It can be hard to see more in real life sometimes with lighting conditions, so not sure much more can be advanced with these pics.
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 16:11   #20
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I found photos on the internet that suit me best (Pale Crag Martin). I attach them below.
I see that he has:
1. a bright white belly
2. Long wings
3. The brightest part of the top of the body is rump
4. the most important rump and tail from above are very bright

I know that digital cameras change colors. I have had many such cases. I once took a photo of Phylloscopus collybita in 2 camera settings and on one photo it came out green and on the other brown. But the camera will never distort from black and white to white and white.
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 16:13   #21
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...underneath the body
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 16:29   #22
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I think I can discern a pale eye, which suggests your bird is a White-eyed River Martin.
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 16:29   #23
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Ryszard,

Perhaps I am mistaken but it appears to me that you are thinking that the images in the original post are neither 1 or 2 but rather fit a Pale Crag Martin from your posts #20 and # 21.

Some members have put forward the suggestions it is a House Martin but due to the poor quality of the images provided a safe identification is not possible. So any further debate is unlikely to produce a result here on Birdforum.

Why not submit a description to the Polish Birds Record Committee for their thoughts and decision?

Good luck.

P

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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 17:01   #24
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I think I can discern a pale eye, which suggests your bird is a White-eyed River Martin.
If it sticks around and you fancy sharing travel costs I'm in
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 17:07   #25
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If it sticks around and you fancy sharing travel costs I'm in
Sounds like a plan!
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