Flash or not to flash (1 Viewer)

dandsblair · Dec 31, 2017

On a recent trip to Indonesia, our guide who is also a serious photographer, said I should really use a flash for night shots of owls even when they are in the spotlight to allow lower ISO setting.

When I was starting out the guy advising me was of the reverse opinion, he said that flash even when the bird was already in a spotlight or torch beam could scare the bird and cause it to move so losing all the benefits of the lower ISO as shutter speed needs to be higher to cope with movement.

I've previously only tried a flash on things like hummingbirds but don't like the the unnatural colours.

Any views on if a flash would have improved some of these shots (cropped for forum)

Jos Stratford · Dec 31, 2017

How close were you to the birds?

I don't have a separate flash for my camera, but do usually use the pop up flash. If you are a little too distant, it is still good as you can layer and screen the shot on Photoshop to get back the lost light.

I am no expert, so maybe somebody with better advise will come along, but what I tend to do is find the bird with a torch, focus then lower the torch and take the shot - this avoids strange exposure and the unnatural overplay of lights (at least in my experience).

Some examples with this:

Andy Adcock · Dec 31, 2017

I'd say that using a flash, would prevent the shutter staying open too long, thus getting a sharper image?

A

Jos Stratford · Dec 31, 2017

andyadcock said:
I'd say that using a flash, would prevent the shutter staying open too long, thus getting a sharper image?

I might be wrong, but I think the shutter stays open longer with a flash, just the light pulse from the flash is shorter hence the sharper image ...if there is a secondary light source, ie spotlight, this can create a ghost image or blur.

Farnboro John · Dec 31, 2017

I'm also no expert, but I thought the reason cameras are limited as to the shutter speed they can synchronise with a flash was due to the camera and not the flash - which together with the ability to synchronise the flash with either the first or second shutter curtain (pretty precise, no?) suggests to my simple brain that the flash pulse is shorter than the shutter speed? I could well be completely wrong.....

Taking photos with LED spotlights may be less problematic than with older models, which tend in my experience to give a rather too warm, yellowish image. Flash can give quite a cold image but that can be adjusted afterwards rather more easily than a real yellowish cast (with my limited skills, anyway.)

I'd say the advantages of Jos's method would be not only image sharpness but also the owl's pupils re-expanding to normal night view instead of having shrunk in the spotlight beam. His pictures tend to support that I think. It does need time and a co-operative subject though.

All of the OP shots could be a bit sharper, which flash would help with (I normally shoot flash at 1/200th, ISO 200 and let the camera worry about f stop).

I also use a full stop of negative exposure compensation on both camera and flash to minimise eye reflection. Does anyone have any clever tricks in relation to that? I've tried off camera brackets, which are fine for shooting from a tripod in a fixed location but very clumsy for a spotlighting walk and when quick reactions may be needed.

John

Neil G. · Dec 31, 2017

Perhaps we should be asking ourselves whether we should be pointing torches and using high powered flash guns on these nocturnal birds at all.

Farnboro John · Dec 31, 2017

Neil G. said:
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves whether we should be pointing torches and using high powered flash guns on these nocturnal birds at all.

Yes, you're right.

OK, I've asked myself.

Back on topic. I've not yet seen a bird move because of flash (its my belief they think its quiet lightning, with which they are familiar), though I'm sure I've seen them do so because of prolonged spotlighting. 1/200th of a second of flash probably makes less disturbance than taking time and perhaps multiple shots, chimping in between, to get something acceptable.

I'm not sure what point is being made about "high-powered flash guns". Modern intelligent flashes deliver the pulse required to produce the photo defined by the camera settings. They are used all the time in the faces of humans, often at quite short ranges, and I'm unaware of any reports of eye damage resulting, except when the odd celeb gets fed up and decks the tog.

Its a non-issue.

John

Neil G. · Dec 31, 2017

It will always be a non issue for humans as long as they get the nicely exposed shot they wanted......nobody has a clue what effect it has on the bird.

Andy Adcock · Dec 31, 2017

Farnboro John said:
Yes, you're right.

Back on topic. I've not yet seen a bird move because of flash (its my belief they think its quiet lightning, with which they are familiar), though I'm sure I've seen them do so because of prolonged spotlighting. 1/200th of a second of flash probably makes less disturbance than taking time and perhaps multiple shots, chimping in between, to get something acceptable.

I'm not sure what point is being made about "high-powered flash guns". Modern intelligent flashes deliver the pulse required to produce the photo defined by the camera settings. They are used all the time in the faces of humans, often at quite short ranges, and I'm unaware of any reports of eye damage resulting, except when the odd celeb gets fed up and decks the tog.

Its a non-issue.

John

Birds will sit still in a torch beam, they fly when you turn the light off. I haven't seen any adverse reaction to flash personally and there are few birds that are photographed so often as to do damage.

Regarding the blurring of the OP images, the only way to avoid this without a flash, is to use a tripod. The blur is caused by the camera (or the object) moving in the hand whilst the shutter is open.

A

Andy Adcock · Dec 31, 2017

Jos Stratford said:
I might be wrong, but I think the shutter stays open longer with a flash, just the light pulse from the flash is shorter hence the sharper image ...if there is a secondary light source, ie spotlight, this can create a ghost image or blur.

I think you are wrong though I'm no genius at this either, I'll ask my wife.

The shutter stays open longer in poor light, the better the light, the faster the shutter speed the sharper the image. Using a spotlight is neccessary for many camers simply to lock on to the subject, not sure there are many (any) that can do it in darkness, the camera has to be focused at least to a point before the flash will activate?

A

Farnboro John · Dec 31, 2017

andyadcock said:
Birds will sit still in a torch beam, they fly when you turn the light off. A

Apologies, that's what I meant. You put it better. I've always assumed that the light dazzles them somewhat and they sit tight until they can see where to go.

John

Jos Stratford · Dec 31, 2017

andyadcock said:
I think you are wrong though I'm no genius at this either

Especially with the built-in flash, shutter speed is 1/250th of a second or less. As John added, it is something to do with ensuring the flash does fire when the shutters are not fully open or something. Certainly on my camera on automatic settings at least, higher shutter speeds are not possible.

Anyhow, for me, it works to move the spotlight beam off the subject when taking the photo to get a better result.

Barred Wobbler · Jan 1, 2018

Flash duration is short, around 1/1000 sec, but the camera sync speed is longer, 1/250sec or thereabouts, so ghosting can occur if the camera is hand-held or the subject moves. I have a flash gun for my camera that allows for high-speed sync. I'm not sure how it works, but it allows the flash to fire using much higher shutter speeds. Handy in low light or when hand-held.

I'm only just getting to grips with using the flash in the field. I've not bothered with it earlier, but it's handy. I was out before Christmas giving it a go in advance of a coming trip which will involve low light conditions. The shots were in daylight, sometimes full sun, but even in the sun it was handy for reducing the impact of twig shadows on the birds. These were all hand-held, 600mm focal length at 1/1250 sec with the flash set at 2/3 to 1 stop under.

And the birds didn't seem to give a stuff. They just got on with what they were doing.

Neil G. · Jan 1, 2018

Birds in daylight are'nt the issue.....nocturnal birds are another matter.Although there is no hard evidence to suggest that flash can harm their eyesight,there is evidence it could cause temporary "blindness"while their eyes readjust to the dark environment.
As nobody knows for sure,the best course of action to take is not to use a flash that is aimed at a nocturnal bird in very dark conditions.
The subject is more important than getting a photograph.

Barred Wobbler · Jan 1, 2018

Neil G. said:
Birds in daylight are'nt the issue.....nocturnal birds are another matter.Although there is no hard evidence to suggest that flash can harm their eyesight,there is evidence it could cause temporary "blindness"while their eyes readjust to the dark environment.
As nobody knows for sure,the best course of action to take is not to use a flash that is aimed at a nocturnal bird in very dark conditions.
The subject is more important than getting a photograph.

I was commenting on the ability to use a faster shutter speed with certain flashes, but if you've got a hobby horse, why not ride it.

katastrofa · Jan 1, 2018

http://www.audubon.org/news/is-flash-photography-safe-owls

Neil G. · Jan 1, 2018

Barred Wobbler said:
Flash duration is short, around 1/1000 sec, but the camera sync speed is longer, 1/250sec or thereabouts, so ghosting can occur if the camera is hand-held or the subject moves. I have a flash gun for my camera that allows for high-speed sync. I'm not sure how it works, but it allows the flash to fire using much higher shutter speeds. Handy in low light or when hand-held.

I'm only just getting to grips with using the flash in the field. I've not bothered with it earlier, but it's handy. I was out before Christmas giving it a go in advance of a coming trip which will involve low light conditions. The shots were in daylight, sometimes full sun, but even in the sun it was handy for reducing the impact of twig shadows on the birds. These were all hand-held, 600mm focal length at 1/1250 sec with the flash set at 2/3 to 1 stop under.

And the birds didn't seem to give a stuff. They just got on with what they were doing.

Sorry for the misunderstanding,it was just your last couple of lines that made me think you were making a point about the effect of flash on birds.
As I was referring to the effect of flash on nocturnal birds,it was these last sentences that made me think you were a bit of a dummy.Sorry again....stupid me.

dandsblair · Jan 2, 2018

Thanks

Thanks for the advice and the link

Andy Adcock · Jan 2, 2018

I asked my wife to comment, she's a pretty serious amateur and she writes.....

Pics are blurry cos the shutterspeed is low and he can't hold the cam still enough.

2 ways to deal with it, tripod or ninja training.

Neither of the above would help with the 1st pic (Spec Boobook)- simply not enough light,
impossible to get decent pic in these conditions, for this pic - only flash would help.

Re flash
if you don't like the colours: don't use 100% flash, go for 1\2 or 1\8, gives you some light, but don't really affect colours or just adjust pics later in Lightroom, no other way.

A

dandsblair · Jan 3, 2018

Thanks will definitely try flash

andyadcock said:
I asked my wife to comment, she's a pretty serious amateur and she writes.....

Pics are blurry cos the shutterspeed is low and he can't hold the cam still enough.

2 ways to deal with it, tripod or ninja training.

Neither of the above would help with the 1st pic (Spec Boobook)- simply not enough light,
impossible to get decent pic in these conditions, for this pic - only flash would help.

Re flash
if you don't like the colours: don't use 100% flash, go for 1\2 or 1\8, gives you some light, but don't really affect colours or just adjust pics later in Lightroom, no other way.

A

thanks - will try flash before next trip

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