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Zen Ray 7x43 ED3 (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter FrankD
- Start date
rka
ttbirds
I asked Zen-Ray a related question not too long ago and this was the response:
"The 7x43 ZEN ED3 eye relief actually works for most of our customers. However, we do get a small percentage of customers who told us the eye relief is too much for them. For them, using a after market winged eyecups from field optical research solved the problem."
So I'm inferring that no change was made to the eye-relief / eyecup but there is a workaround.
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Rui_Caratão
Well-known member
I have been using my new 7x43 ED3 for a few days and I must say they are sharper, brighter, with larger sweet spot than my 7x36 ED2. Only by comparison on the same targets you notice the diference...
The focus wheel dont seem to be faster than on the ED2, I would say that the grip of the focus knobb on the Ed3 make it seem that is... I probably have loosed some birds (and their ID) inside the tree canopy due to the low grip knobb of the ED2, on the ED3 this problem is solved.
Defenetly, they are for glass wearers, I have to use them with eye-cups fully extended, wich I didnt liked in the begining, although they are perfect with all my sunglasses with the eye-cups fully collapsed.
The focus wheel dont seem to be faster than on the ED2, I would say that the grip of the focus knobb on the Ed3 make it seem that is... I probably have loosed some birds (and their ID) inside the tree canopy due to the low grip knobb of the ED2, on the ED3 this problem is solved.
Defenetly, they are for glass wearers, I have to use them with eye-cups fully extended, wich I didnt liked in the begining, although they are perfect with all my sunglasses with the eye-cups fully collapsed.
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+100 (I sold my 7x36 cuz the ED3 a way better!!!)
I've fixed black-out issue by moving the eyecups (rubber barrels) a bit upwards (4...5mm).
BTW, has anybody got an information concerning the operating temperature range of ED3 binos? I sent the request to ZR (abt a month ago, twice really), but NO answer from them.... I've been ignored, Charles?
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brocknroller
porromaniac
Rui,
Since you have both models, how do they compare in terms of distortion across the field (pincushion)? Do straight lines begin to bend as quickly off axis as the 36mm or less so?
In case you're not sure what I mean, check out Holger's diagrams. Look at the 2,3, and 4 images, which show various degrees of pincushion and compare them to what you see in the E2 vs. E3. If you look at a telephone poll and then move it off axis about 30%, then 40%, then 50%, 70%, you should should be able to tell which bin is bending straight lines more.
http://holgermerlitz.de/curv/pin_curvature.html
Look at these the four globes and see which one most closely resembles what you see through the ED2 and the ED3, respectively. That should be revealing.
Brock
eitanaltman
Well-known member
Brock - for the love of god, why don't you just take advantage of Zen-Ray's unconditional 30-day return policy and just ORDER A PAIR already!
How many times are you going to ask poor posters on this forum about the pincushion on the ED3 models?
BTW - from memory, I would put the ED3 at around the 3rd "Holger globe" (k = 0.5) in terms of pincushion. You really don't notice it in the center but it gets pretty obvious out towards the edge.
How many times are you going to ask poor posters on this forum about the pincushion on the ED3 models?
BTW - from memory, I would put the ED3 at around the 3rd "Holger globe" (k = 0.5) in terms of pincushion. You really don't notice it in the center but it gets pretty obvious out towards the edge.
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Steve C
Well-known member
Brock - for the love of god, why don't you just take advantage of Zen-Ray's unconditional 30-day return policy and just ORDER A PAIR already!
How many times are you going to ask poor posters on this forum about the pincushion on the ED3 models?
BTW - from memory, I would put the ED3 at around the 3rd "Holger globe" (k = 0.5) in terms of pincushion. You really don't notice it in the center but it gets pretty obvious out towards the edge.
AMEN! Brock it is clear to me that your eyes are enough different from whatever the norm is that NOBODY will be able to describe to you what it is YOU are going to see.
I have both models and agree the 7x43 is better. The edges on neither are perfect. Other than that I'm at a loss.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Brock - for the love of god, why don't you just take advantage of Zen-Ray's unconditional 30-day return policy and just ORDER A PAIR already!
How many times are you going to ask poor posters on this forum about the pincushion on the ED3 models?
BTW - from memory, I would put the ED3 at around the 3rd "Holger globe" (k = 0.5) in terms of pincushion. You really don't notice it in the center but it gets pretty obvious out towards the edge.
I guess as many times as it takes until I get the answer I'm looking for, which would be the second "Holger globe".
As to ordering, I don't do credit, only layaway like others of my ilk. When my pig's feet jars are filled with the right count and the amount, I will order a new bin. With Christmas coming up and the vet bill still pinching my wallet, it won't be until next year before I buy a new bin. OTOH, iif Zeiss hadn't taken so damn long releasing the HT....
In truth, I'm undecided as whether to go lower in magnification than what I have or higher. When I'm "out and about" I often find myself longing for more reeeeach. I keep trying to get closer to the birds with my 10xs until I end up scaring them off.
What led me back to the 7x was when astroboy said that the shakes reduced resolution in a handheld 15x in by half! Didn't seem that much to me when I used the Nikon 8-16x40 XL Zoom @ 15x, which was very well balanced and 32 oz., just enough weight to dampen bad vibes at higher power.
So while the jars fill up again (just leftover Halloween candy in them now), I'm trying to decide if I could live with carrying a tripod around with me and mounting a 15x bin. The added bonus is that a 15x60 would also be good for stargazing.
So I'm having a Big Think, as my old girlfriend used to say, and in the meantime soliciting opinions on sevens and fifteens.
<B>
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brocknroller
porromaniac
AMEN! Brock it is clear to me that your eyes are enough different from whatever the norm is that NOBODY will be able to describe to you what it is YOU are going to see.
I don't need perfect edges, but 70%+ sweet spot with gradual fall off is what I do like. The funny thing is that both sample 7x36 ED2s had one EP that fell off at about 55% (field curvature mostly from there out) and the other EP was sharp to about 70% and gradual fall off. If I had gotten one with both sides sharp to 70%, I probably would have bit my lip and lived with the excessive pincushion, because the centerfield was super sharp and clean, the ergonomics were very comfortable, and 7x was so easy to steady that at times, I swore I could see more detail than with Jerry's EL. Ooops! Did I just say that, the absamites are going to have me drawn and quartered.
This was particularly noticeable while watching hawks or birds of prey overhead. The steeper the angle, the more shakes with the 8.5x, but the 7x remained fairly steady. So while the Swaro's resolution was, of course, better, there's bench tested and field tested, and in this field test, the 7x outperformed the 8.5x.
7x has virtues. I have the same Nikon 7x35 WF that Frank has and it has a very large sweet spot, I use it for stargazing, but the single coatings are no match for the "latest and greatest" so it's not as "snappy" for birding even though the great depth of field is a wonderful thing to behold. Super 3-D.
I'd still rather an updated, high quality 7x35 porro, but alas, even the new 820 Audubon, which I had been hanging my hopes on seems to fall short. I thought the optics were very good in the older 820 I had, but the eyecups were horrid and the fit and finish were awful for the price point. Dust under the paint, which I thought was on top of the paint, so I tried to flick it off with my finger and the paint peeled off! The bin was almost brand new. The focuser bridge flexed. The 820 was definitely in need of a redesign, but from the review of the new style 820, Swift still has bugs to work out before I'm ready to buy one.
<B>
Has anybody got an information concerning the operating temperature range of ED3 binos? I sent the request to ZR (abt a month ago, twice really), but NO answer from them.... I've been ignored, Charles?
Here it's winter soon. I'd like to get the info...
ZR, may I add my request also, for a cutaway pic of the ED3 7x43, as a very new owner (so new the instrument hasn't reached me yet - have to get it from the friend who bought and collected it for me in the USA - don't know when that'll be - in the meantime he's to use it - hope he can part with it!)
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Xbted52, been stalking you on the forum, and saw just now your "late to work" post. Have there been instances when you were not satisfied with the 7x, say for a distant id., or in night use, and wished you had the ED3 8x (which you did for a while) or some other equiv. 8x? If so details appreciated! Thanks. PS - Anyone else, too! PPS. If your response is relevant generally to 7x may I suggest posting it in the foll. or other such thread: "Should I go 7x", http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=235385.
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xbted52
Well-known member
Hey Pompadour, it's flattering in a way that I'm 'being stalked!' But to answer your question, I first tried out the ED3 8x43 and it was superb glass. I loved the Zen Rays, and I love their customer service for sure. And I love Lanius Books for letting me use their binoculars for a month. But in the end, I went with the 7x43. I don't think there has been a moment where I wished I had gone with the 8x model. In all honesty, the lack of an extra digit of power has not made me wish I had gone with something more powerful- with the 7x, there is that deep field of view, the wide field of view and the extra brightness. Where I am here in Germany, being able to see birds easily in a dim canopy of leaves, zipping around the woods, far outweighs the benefits of having extra power. Most of my big birds around here are easily identifiable without binoculars, birds such as Red Kites and Buzzards, so the binoculars really come into play when observing smaller species in the darker woods. To that extent, the 7x43s are perfect for my style of bird watching.
That is not to say that I don't use 8 power bins, but those are my 8x56s, and I use them in the evenings and during the winter, but not because of the power but because of the aperture. I love the 8x56 for their ease of use and the light magnification they provide. They are quite a bit larger and heavier than the 7x43, but in general I don't mind one bit. However, I also have a pair of 8x42 that I don't use for anything but looking at bugs.
I love my 7x43 optically, though they have some physical flaws that need to be mended when I have the money to send them to America. I carry them with me all the time, and I guess the best binoculars are the ones you have on you. If I lost this pair, I would buy another 7x43 to replace them, with my glasses, the view is just so much better.
I hope that answers your questions!
Ted
That is not to say that I don't use 8 power bins, but those are my 8x56s, and I use them in the evenings and during the winter, but not because of the power but because of the aperture. I love the 8x56 for their ease of use and the light magnification they provide. They are quite a bit larger and heavier than the 7x43, but in general I don't mind one bit. However, I also have a pair of 8x42 that I don't use for anything but looking at bugs.
I love my 7x43 optically, though they have some physical flaws that need to be mended when I have the money to send them to America. I carry them with me all the time, and I guess the best binoculars are the ones you have on you. If I lost this pair, I would buy another 7x43 to replace them, with my glasses, the view is just so much better.
I hope that answers your questions!
Ted
Ted, thanks! Glad you like your bin!
Yes, your reply does provide much useful info., esp. relating to your actual range of experience there, with the details you include of settings and birds. 7x being more effective in that way within wooded habitats does matter to me, too.
One thing I'm still particularly keen to know is: does your remark, "I don't think there has been a moment where I wished I had gone with the 8x model," include viewing birds at a fair distance and being satisfied with id. or other details? That's in daylight. Also, what about distant target/s in very low light, e.g. night? On this matter please also see right below.
Not yet perfectly happy with my ZR ED3 7x43, because, I hasten to say, of personal quirks and lapses. Hope the foll. doesn't have too much of that to be useful here.
Have a strong preference /fixation for the small and light. 'Wow' less than with Leica Uv. 10x25 (my main bin) or Kowa 6x30 porro (the Leup. Yosemite equiv., field > 8°). Optics as good as everyone says, but maybe no harm if reds and purer blues stood out a bit more as in Leica or Nikon. Eye relief a bit too long even with specs. Whole distance range usable with 4.5 dioptre short sight and no specs. Focussing clockwise out appreciated! Very nicely balanced and shaped and "light in the hand": mine not large. Grip effective even to carry without strap. Tip: looks much better if focus knob and badge blacked out with marker pen!
Somehow expected it magically to light up the night for owls et al. That's the biggest disappointment. For v. dim light v. little different from the two bins named above. Nikon EX 16x50 (note exit pupil 3.13 mm) strikingly better. Seems my pupils dilate to at least 5 mm: difficult to know the max. as they close so quickly when I play enough light on them to see them! So magnificn. does matter that much there. Ted, you may have done this, but have you compared your 8x56 and 8x42 at night carefully centering the latter with your pupils? Not sure about how much a larger exit pupil can help at night, even when the pupil of the eye is as large. This is discussed in the recent thread on 7x vs 8x in the Zeiss sub-forum.
Right now thinking I may be better served by the Nikon Monarch 7 8x42, Bushnell Ultra 8x36, Kowa Genesis 8x33 or Sightron B.S. 8x32 with its unusual depth of field. (Zeiss Victory FL 8x32 too pricey.)
Ted, I'd assume you prefer the 8x42 over the 7x for bug watching because the subjects are so small in the view, and the magnificn. offests steadiness and depth of field being less. I'm wondering about the same thing re birds!
On this matter, I do realise that one rarely struggles to identify a bird beyond a certain size / distance ratio even with a 10x, and usually waits or moves for a closer view. But I'm thinking of those instances!
PS • Not much actual field use yet. • Happened that one day at the same place was a bin which is the 8x42 in the second-level model range of a well-regarded maker and > twice the price. A little smaller and ~ 75 g lighter. In a "side-by-side" comparison the ZR was better optically by all/ nearly all major criteria - including absolute resolution of distant detail, although 7x vs 8x!
Yes, your reply does provide much useful info., esp. relating to your actual range of experience there, with the details you include of settings and birds. 7x being more effective in that way within wooded habitats does matter to me, too.
One thing I'm still particularly keen to know is: does your remark, "I don't think there has been a moment where I wished I had gone with the 8x model," include viewing birds at a fair distance and being satisfied with id. or other details? That's in daylight. Also, what about distant target/s in very low light, e.g. night? On this matter please also see right below.
Not yet perfectly happy with my ZR ED3 7x43, because, I hasten to say, of personal quirks and lapses. Hope the foll. doesn't have too much of that to be useful here.
Have a strong preference /fixation for the small and light. 'Wow' less than with Leica Uv. 10x25 (my main bin) or Kowa 6x30 porro (the Leup. Yosemite equiv., field > 8°). Optics as good as everyone says, but maybe no harm if reds and purer blues stood out a bit more as in Leica or Nikon. Eye relief a bit too long even with specs. Whole distance range usable with 4.5 dioptre short sight and no specs. Focussing clockwise out appreciated! Very nicely balanced and shaped and "light in the hand": mine not large. Grip effective even to carry without strap. Tip: looks much better if focus knob and badge blacked out with marker pen!
Somehow expected it magically to light up the night for owls et al. That's the biggest disappointment. For v. dim light v. little different from the two bins named above. Nikon EX 16x50 (note exit pupil 3.13 mm) strikingly better. Seems my pupils dilate to at least 5 mm: difficult to know the max. as they close so quickly when I play enough light on them to see them! So magnificn. does matter that much there. Ted, you may have done this, but have you compared your 8x56 and 8x42 at night carefully centering the latter with your pupils? Not sure about how much a larger exit pupil can help at night, even when the pupil of the eye is as large. This is discussed in the recent thread on 7x vs 8x in the Zeiss sub-forum.
Right now thinking I may be better served by the Nikon Monarch 7 8x42, Bushnell Ultra 8x36, Kowa Genesis 8x33 or Sightron B.S. 8x32 with its unusual depth of field. (Zeiss Victory FL 8x32 too pricey.)
Ted, I'd assume you prefer the 8x42 over the 7x for bug watching because the subjects are so small in the view, and the magnificn. offests steadiness and depth of field being less. I'm wondering about the same thing re birds!
On this matter, I do realise that one rarely struggles to identify a bird beyond a certain size / distance ratio even with a 10x, and usually waits or moves for a closer view. But I'm thinking of those instances!
PS • Not much actual field use yet. • Happened that one day at the same place was a bin which is the 8x42 in the second-level model range of a well-regarded maker and > twice the price. A little smaller and ~ 75 g lighter. In a "side-by-side" comparison the ZR was better optically by all/ nearly all major criteria - including absolute resolution of distant detail, although 7x vs 8x!
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Bruce, to avoid off-topic problems, I posted my response in another thread: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=257353.
xbted52
Well-known member
Hey Pompadour, I hope I cover all of your points here in my response-
Light wise, I am very happy the 7x43 performance in low light- but they are very similiar to 8x43/8x42. The 8x56 is my king of low light performance- so I use those most often during dark days/evenings/planet watching.
Likewise, the difference between magnifications of 7 and 8 make hardly a difference- at long distances, I would probably use my telescope with a correcting prism.
The thing that really stands out is the wide field of view at a long focal length- I wear very thick glasses, so the 7x43 gives me a great view without taking my glasses off.
However, optics aside, actually prefer using my 8x56s in many conditions. I love the Zen Ray optics and clarity, but the 8x56 format is so easy to use and is very versatile.
Another reason that I like my 8x56 is that my 7x43s have been falling apart since about the first week- and this weekend the screws literally fell out of my right eye cup and the focusing knob has come loose. My Edens look like I just bought them, while my Zen Rays look like they've been through hell, despite the fact that I've been using the 8x56s all winter. To say that I've been disappointed with the Zen Ray build quality would be an extreme understatement- I know that these aren't Leicas, but the 60$ cheapie binoculars that I bought over a year ago have held up better, as in they perform and look like they're still brand new.
Granted, there is a lifetime warranty on the binoculars- but shipping back to America is expensive, and I've been trying to hold off as long as possible. Its just that the 8x43s that I tried out last summer seemed bullet proof, and these 7x43s should have been factory rejects.
That being said, when they are not falling apart, the view is great!
Light wise, I am very happy the 7x43 performance in low light- but they are very similiar to 8x43/8x42. The 8x56 is my king of low light performance- so I use those most often during dark days/evenings/planet watching.
Likewise, the difference between magnifications of 7 and 8 make hardly a difference- at long distances, I would probably use my telescope with a correcting prism.
The thing that really stands out is the wide field of view at a long focal length- I wear very thick glasses, so the 7x43 gives me a great view without taking my glasses off.
However, optics aside, actually prefer using my 8x56s in many conditions. I love the Zen Ray optics and clarity, but the 8x56 format is so easy to use and is very versatile.
Another reason that I like my 8x56 is that my 7x43s have been falling apart since about the first week- and this weekend the screws literally fell out of my right eye cup and the focusing knob has come loose. My Edens look like I just bought them, while my Zen Rays look like they've been through hell, despite the fact that I've been using the 8x56s all winter. To say that I've been disappointed with the Zen Ray build quality would be an extreme understatement- I know that these aren't Leicas, but the 60$ cheapie binoculars that I bought over a year ago have held up better, as in they perform and look like they're still brand new.
Granted, there is a lifetime warranty on the binoculars- but shipping back to America is expensive, and I've been trying to hold off as long as possible. Its just that the 8x43s that I tried out last summer seemed bullet proof, and these 7x43s should have been factory rejects.
That being said, when they are not falling apart, the view is great!
