• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

AOU 2017 Checklist proposals (1 Viewer)

AOU Proposal Set 2017-B

Mysticete said:
A is up, but not readily accessible. Go here directly to see them:

http://checklist.aou.org/assets/proposals/PDF/2017-A.pdf
Click to expand...

AOU Classification Committee – North and Middle America
Proposal Set 2017-B

01 02 Recognize additional species in the Aulacorhynchus “prasinus” toucanet complex
02 17 Treat the subspecies (A) spectabilis and (B) viridiceps as separate species from Eugenes fulgens (Magnificent Hummingbird)
03 23 Elevate Turdus rufopalliatus graysoni to species rank
04 26 Recognize newly described species Arremon kuehnerii
05 30 Revise the classification of the Icteridae: (A) add seven subfamilies; (B) split Leistes from Sturnella; (C) resurrect Ptiloxena for Dives atroviolaceus; and (D) modify the linear sequence of genera
06 34 Revise familial limits and the linear sequence of families within the nineprimaried oscines
07 42 Lump Acanthis flammea and Acanthis hornemanni into a single species
08 48 Split Lanius excubitor into two or more species
09 54 Add Mangrove Rail Rallus longirostris to the main list
10 56 Revise the generic classification and linear sequence of Anas
 
Resurect Ptiloxena. Its all about the barbicels.
Figure one on page 308.
http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/bits...Source/bul/B004a16.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y .
Can someone explain to me how in biology burden shifting works? In the law in order to change the status quo the party has the burden of production of evidence. Then they have the burden of proof to show some thing. Once they do the burden of proof shifts to the old status quo side. So now its up to the filthy twitchers to prove that there are multiple redpolls. Apply Tobias? What is the burden beyond a moral certainty? Were Mason et al just being polite by not touching cabaret? If AOS adopts this will Clement feel forced to lump cabaret? So many questions.
 
Last edited:
I suspect you might be over-analyzing a turn of phrase

At moment, none of the evidence suggests that Hoary and Common Redpoll treat each other as "different species". So if "lumping" becomes the new status quo, someone would have to show evidence they do.

The proposal FYI says it doesn't cover cabaret, and makes no judgement call on the status of that form. So potentially Clements may not lump it.
 
Peter Kovalik said:
AOU Classification Committee – North and Middle America
Proposal Set 2017-B

.....
07 42 Lump Acanthis flammea and Acanthis hornemanni into a single species
.....
Click to expand...

Mysticete said:
.....

The proposal FYI says it doesn't cover cabaret, and makes no judgement call on the status of that form. So potentially Clements may not lump it.
Click to expand...
But:
Despite the genetic and genomic data, however, we recommend treating A. cabaret as a separate species, pending future studies of assortative mating and any reconsideration of this species by local authorities
Click to expand...
Since BOU have announced they will be following IOC from 1 January 2018, from that date, cabaret will no longer be considered a separate species 'by local authorities'. So the bar to lumping is removed.
 
"The proposal FYI says it doesn't cover cabaret, and makes no judgement call on the status of that form." Thanks Morgan for the full response. I am a visual learner. I was relying on the visual of the three little birds on Figure C. I just now read it and it says: "SNAPP tree using 1587 SNPs for common, hoary and lesser redpoll, and white-winged crossbill (grey). Bayes factor delimitation strongly favoured lumping redpolls into a single species (Bayes factor = 36.80)." Lesser = cabaret.
 
It would be nice if the status of Lesser could be resolved at the same time. If it gets lumped too, we could skip coming up with a new name for Common+Hoary (unless there already is one?) and go straight to just "Redpoll."
 
My guess and hope is that we will just end up with Redpoll. With BOU switching over to IOC, the one relevant committee no longer recognizes Lesser Redpoll, and I suspect Clements will no longer recognize it.
 
Passerellidae Cabanis & Heine 1851 is not "the oldest family name available for this group". The oldest name is Arremonidae Lafresnaye 1841.
 
Of particular interest to those here in the above proposal, are suggestions for 2 way splits of Nashville Warbler and Brown Creeper, as well as a recognition of the "Guatamalan" Flicker as a new species. As well as lumping Thayer's Gull and Iceland Gull together.

The Nashville Warbler and Flicker proposals seem really really weak, and I don't give them much chance at all passing
 
Split Certhia americana into two species:
Certhia americana (Northern Lineage), common name: Nearctic Creeper
Certhia albescens (Southern Lineage), common name: Brown Creeper
Click to expand...

I think the retention of the name "Brown Creeper" is not great, particularly if it is retained for the southern lineage, which I think would be more disastrous than other recent name retentions (and than other retentions proposed in this same set of proposals). There is a note from the Chair though:

[Note from Chair: Alternate English names for the southern lineage, which would complement the suggested name for the northern lineage and would be in keeping with our policy of new names for both daughter species, would include Neotropical Creeper and Mesoamerican Creeper.]
Click to expand...

I think the two names listed there are much better than retaining Brown Creeper. Neotropical is a nice balance to Nearctic, but I would be fine with Mesoamerican too.
 
cwbirder said:
I think the retention of the name "Brown Creeper" is not great, particularly if it is retained for the southern lineage, which I think would be more disastrous than other recent name retentions (and than other retentions proposed in this same set of proposals). There is a note from the Chair though:



I think the two names listed there are much better than retaining Brown Creeper. Neotropical is a nice balance to Nearctic, but I would be fine with Mesoamerican too.
Click to expand...

I know nobody likes change for the sake of it, but might not this be the ideal opportunity to rename the two American forms 'treecreepers' to align with the Old World which is of course the centre of Certhia diversity? I'm not sure I like any of the suggested new names for these two 'new' daughter species and I've always thought 'Brown Creeper' was very poor (similar to 'Marsh Hawk'.

cheers, alan
 
cwbirder said:
I think the retention of the name "Brown Creeper" is not great, particularly if it is retained for the southern lineage, which I think would be more disastrous than other recent name retentions (and than other retentions proposed in this same set of proposals). There is a note from the Chair though:



I think the two names listed there are much better than retaining Brown Creeper. Neotropical is a nice balance to Nearctic, but I would be fine with Mesoamerican too.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first paragraph. I actually HATE Nearctic...Northern Creeper I think is a much better name.

I'll not that the proposed Bell's Vireo split has the same problem, but not sure of what name makes the most sense for the eastern form or if any alternative names already exist out there.
 
lewis20126 said:
I know nobody likes change for the sake of it, but might not this be the ideal opportunity to rename the two American forms 'treecreepers' to align with the Old World which is of course the centre of Certhia diversity? I'm not sure I like any of the suggested new names for these two 'new' daughter species and I've always thought 'Brown Creeper' was very poor (similar to 'Marsh Hawk'.

cheers, alan
Click to expand...

"Nearctic (or Northern? or Brown?) Treecreeper" would also have the benefit of separating the bird from North America's other creeper, the Black and White Creeper.

https://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/bwdsite/birdwire-features/black-and-white-creeper.php

A fun quote from Alexander Wilson in 1811: "It was first figured by Edwards from a dried skin sent him by Mr. William Bartram, who gave it its present name. Succeeding naturalists have classed it with the warblers; a mistake which I have endeavored to rectify."

More seriously though, if the name is to change anyway and all the stability arguments go away, I don't see a good reason not to align with the European Certhia treatment.

Incidentally, I'd always heard birders refer to the southern populations as "Mexican Creeper," so it surprises me a bit that it didn't come up in the proposal. Northern Treecreeper and Mexican Treecreeper. There, I've made everyone happy.

Unless you think we should insert hyphens....
 
Kirk Roth said:
Incidentally, I'd always heard birders refer to the southern populations as "Mexican Creeper," so it surprises me a bit that it didn't come up in the proposal. Northern Treecreeper and Mexican Treecreeper. There, I've made everyone happy.

Unless you think we should insert hyphens....
Click to expand...

Mexican Treecreeper is ideal. Northern Treecreeper, perhaps less so in a global context, though I could live with it! No hyphens. :t:

cheers, alan
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

G
AOU-NACC Proposals 2024
2 3
Replies
42
Views
4K
l_raty
l_raty
Peter Kovalik
AOU-NACC Proposals 2023
2
Replies
39
Views
7K
Mysticete
Mysticete
Peter Kovalik
AOU-NACC Proposals 2022
5 6 7
Replies
130
Views
20K
Mysticete
Mysticete
Peter Kovalik
AOU-NACC Proposals 2021
6 7 8
Replies
153
Views
20K
l_raty
l_raty
Peter Kovalik
AOU-NACC Proposals 2020
3 4 5
Replies
95
Views
20K
Andy Adcock
Andy Adcock

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top