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Long shot ID ideas, UK Yorkshire (1 Viewer)

jenza88

Well-known member
I know it is long shot, but I wondered if anyone may have any ideas as to the identity of the bird I saw whilst on the way to work this morning. It was 7:20am and so still pretty dark but here goes:
The bird was very large, almost Heron sized (although I know size can be deceptive), it was not a Heron though, its legs did not trail and it did not have a long neck.
It appeared black (this may have been due to the darkness and so could have been dark brown) but when it flew over me it appeared to have a whitish underside with the exception of the wings that still appeared black/very dark.
The wings were thick and had rounded ends, no noticeable fingers.
The bird was circling around over woodland but not soaring, it was flying with long, slow wing beats, it then flew over across more open farmland.
Its beak appeared longish (not to the extent of a wader but longer than say a crow) it was also possibly slightly turned over at the end (almost like a cormorant).
Thoughts went from Heron (when it was at a distance because of the size but none of the other features were there for this) to Buzzard (but no noticeable fingers and beak wrong) to Osprey (because of the white underside but again, no fingers, wrong time of year, wrong beak) to Cormorant (because of the beak but it was much larger than a cormorant) to finally Raven (because of the size but area is wrong, white underside doesn't fit and beak doesn't either - unless it had something in its beak).
It definitely wasn't a crow or rook - I know size can be deceptive but it flew right over my car and I see thousands of these coming in to roost every day.

Thanks in advance.
Jenny
 
too small for a cormorant but ok for a raven? Cormorants are bigger than ravens...

Sounds like an imm cormorant, at a wild guess. Although flying herons draw their necks in so they don't look long, and the legs are not exceptionally long behind the tail...so maybe it was a heron after all?
 
Thank you for suggestions.
It definitely was not a Cormorant, are they nearly the size of a Heron? I'm sure the ones I've seen are not that large and I see them regularly as there are a pair on my local river. As for the Raven, I didn't think it was a Raven, mainly because of the white underbelly. I do not really know about the size of Ravens except that everyone always says you would know one if you saw one because they are so much bigger that a Crow or Rook. The only time I've ever see one was when I was little, at the Tower of London so was not trying to say it was the size of a Raven.
Also it definitely was not a Heron, again I see herons most days on the way to work. This bird flew right over my car after circling around over the wood and it did not look like anything I recognised. The only reason I meantioned certain birds was to give an idea of certain features I noticed. I didn't think it was any of them.
As for the suggestion of owl, like you said, the beak is obviously wrong, as is the head shape - the face wasn't flat but the wings were that kind of thick rounded shape. Also, don't know an owl that is that kind of size.
 
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Thank you for suggestions.
It definitely was not a Cormorant, are they nearly the size of a Heron? I'm sure the ones I've seen are not that large and I see them regularly as there are a pair on my local river. As for the Raven, I didn't think it was a Raven, mainly because of the white underbelly. I do not really know about the size of Ravens except that everyone always says you would know one if you saw one because they are so much bigger that a Crow or Rook. The only time I've ever see one was when I was little, at the Tower of London so was not trying to say it was the size of a Raven.
Also it definitely was not a Heron, again I see herons most days on the way to work. This bird flew right over my car after circling around over the wood and it did not look like anything I recognised. The only reason I meantioned certain birds was to give an idea of certain features I noticed. I didn't think it was any of them.
As for the suggestion of owl, like you said, the beak is obviously wrong, as is the head shape - the face wasn't flat but the wings were that kind of thick rounded shape. Also, don't know an owl that is that kind of size.

Take the legs away and shorten the neck a bit. In body size there's not a lot in it.
 

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How about Night heron, Jenny?
Rare, but your description goes q. well.

Thank you ... if only!
I have to say though that in the pictures I've looked at, the wings are just right (see attached picture - this is how the wings were). The legs on this still seem to trail out behind though. could I have thought they were its tail?.

Cormorant is definitely not right, although I do take your point about the size, thank you for the picture. The wings are just not right, too pointy at the ends (gosh my descriptions are so technical) and the neck is too long - plus I know Cormorants well, both in flight, in water and perched.
Regards
Jenny

Edit: I've just looked into the possibility of Night Heron a bit more and realised there was a pair at Fairburn Ings earlier this year so it wouldn't be a complete rarity for it to have been one. That said, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, it would be too good to be true, also someone else would surely have seen it.
 

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Don't forget that herons fly with their necks folded in not out straight!

Thank you.
Again, like with Cormorant, I know Grey Herons well and got a good view of this bird. I would definitely have recognised it if it had been a Grey Heron. Grey Heron was my initial impression from a distance as it circle over the woodland. As I got closer, it flew right over the front of my car. It was not a bird I knew, I did not have my books with me and would not even know where to start looking. I am pretty familiar with relatively common birds although I admit to getting muddled up between different BOPs and have no experience with most seabirds that do not come inland but it was unidentifiable as anything I could think of, it just had similarities to some species.
I realise that we will never get an absolute ID but I hoped some people may recognise my description!
 
Could it have been a lapwing or oyster catcher. If it was fairly dark when you saw the bird the size could have appeared bigger than it really was. The lapwing has dark uppers with white underneath. Also fingers at the ends of wings aren't always open. I often see buzzards with closed wing tips so not a great id indicator. I really can't think of anything that is near the size of a heron except a goose. Buzzards are no where near the size of heron. HHmmm very tricky.
 
Could it have been a lapwing or oyster catcher. If it was fairly dark when you saw the bird the size could have appeared bigger than it really was. The lapwing has dark uppers with white underneath. Also fingers at the ends of wings aren't always open. I often see buzzards with closed wing tips so not a great id indicator. I really can't think of anything that is near the size of a heron except a goose. Buzzards are no where near the size of heron. HHmmm very tricky.

Thanks but no, absolutely definitely not, I know these birds very well and they are totally the wrong size. It flew right over the front of the car and I'm sure I'm not too far out with the size being similar to a Heron. The white underside did not seem as clearly demarcated as on either of these species (Lapwing or Oystercatcher) either. It was not a Buzzard, the beak was wrong and it seemed to have thicker, more rounded wings. It was also not a goose - no neck stuck out in front and wings not rounded at the end enough.
The picture of the Night Heron is very similar to what I saw and presumably is a very similar size too. That said, I am not saying it was one of these.
As an aside, I had seen 10 Whooper Swans flying over 5 mins previously so had something in mind to compare it to.
 
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Finally home - In my Collins it says that in flight feet are not much noticeable in Night Heron and that it has compact stubby-ended outline with drooping bill and stiff wingbeats - does sound like what I saw and what I described, the picture is also good.
BUT: Is a rare vagrant anyway and is a Summer visitor (mainly Mar to Oct) so presume this rules it out.
 
Thanks but no, absolutely definitely not, I know these birds very well and they are totally the wrong size. It flew right over the front of the car and I'm sure I'm not too far out with the size being similar to a Heron. The white underside did not seem as clearly demarcated as on either of these species (Lapwing or Oystercatcher) either. It was not a Buzzard, the beak was wrong and it seemed to have thicker, more rounded wings. It was also not a goose - no neck stuck out in front and wings not rounded at the end enough.
The picture of the Night Heron is very similar to what I saw and presumably is a very similar size too. That said, I am not saying it was one of these.
As an aside, I had seen 10 Whooper Swans flying over 5 mins previously so had something in mind to compare it to.

night heron is around 60cm grey heron for comparison is around 91cm and a whooper swan around 152cm. If you think it was a bit smaller than a grey heron maybe it was a night heron.
 
Plus Night herons, as their name suggests, are active at night, often flying at dawn & dusk.
Add to that, that many (?) are kept in captivity...and milder winters...
They always look bigger than they ought in flight to me.
 
Plus Night herons, as their name suggests, are active at night, often flying at dawn & dusk.
Add to that, that many (?) are kept in captivity...and milder winters...
They always look bigger than they ought in flight to me.

Have to say that having looked in my Collins and at more pictures on the web, this looks the most like what I saw. Add that to the behaviour e.g. long wing beats and what you say above, it seems to fit. Wish I had properly stopped the car and got out but couldn't find a place to pull over (I did briefly stop in the middle of the road whilst there was nothing coming).

This photo in particular is like what I saw (minus the feet - like I said, I did not notice trailing feet).
 

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Definite long shot.....

Hi
reading your description as I went through it I was mentally checking in the same birds as you were....about three years ago I went through a similar list with a bird seen from a car about sun up - it was flying away from us to the reaction "what the heck is that" which was answered a few minutes later when it flew back in our direction a rather...... large graceful curlew? Its frustrating sometimes - I recently saw a black hawk shaped bird but rather a glimpsing view and wrote it off as a jackdaw...except I saw it again a week later for a bit longer and it wasn't a jackdaw, if anything it looked and flew like a completely blue - black peregrine. I've filed the sighting away in the back of my mind so I can sleep nights....maybe see it again and get a better description in different light etc. It sometimes works that way :0)

regards
Sandy
 
Where was this, Jenny? Not near the A1 at Wetherby?

No, it was in Doncaster, off Bawtry Road, very near the airport. Were you thinking of the Fairburn Ings birds?

Have looked into Bittern, it was similar but description of Night Heron beak sloping down is more accurate than Bittern's which slopes upwards. Also large feet trail behind Bitterns whereas it (Collins) says that a Night Heron's may not be noticeable. Having said that, Potteric Carr is not a million miles away and I've seen plenty of Bitterns there. I could not rule out Bittern 100%, Night Heron just fits what I saw better.
I did get pretty good views despite the dawn light. What I need to work on is when I see something different, resisting the urge to flap around, saying to myself what is it, what is it, is it a ..., is it a ...? I need to start being a bit more logical and taking note of all the features that may allow me to ID it a bit better.
Needless to say it wasn't there this morning.
 
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