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ALL made in China?? (1 Viewer)

chill6x6

Registered User
Supporter
Soooo...
I guess ALL of Vortex's binoculars are now made in China. I can't find anything that now says otherwise.

Does this now mean that at approx $1180 the Vortex Razor HD 8X42 is NOW the most expensive MIC 8X42 binocular?

How many of you are willing to recommend Vipers and Razors now and how many would be willing to pay that? Do you think it MATTERS? $500 is really the limit at what I would be willing to pay for a MIC binocular. I can't IMAGINE laying out over a thousand on a MIC binocular. I can't imagine it.
 
Soooo...
I guess ALL of Vortex's binoculars are now made in China. I can't find anything that now says otherwise.

Does this now mean that at approx $1180 the Vortex Razor HD 8X42 is NOW the most expensive MIC 8X42 binocular?

How many of you are willing to recommend Vipers and Razors now and how many would be willing to pay that? Do you think it MATTERS? $500 is really the limit at what I would be willing to pay for a MIC binocular. I can't IMAGINE laying out over a thousand on a MIC binocular. I can't imagine it.
Its sad, but it is reality. I guess as China's manufacturing experience and maturity progresses they will develop quality products. Japan and Korea all were preindustrialised countries back in the day and now fight amongst the best on the world stage for various products.

But still nothing beats Alpha Euro glass, all factors considered. *drools o:)
 
I think China has a long way to go before their mindset changes from making a fast buck and growth regardless, to a more ethical approach to life.
At present they just want to undercut everyone on price and use what I see as unfair business practices. It was not like this with Chinese goods pre 1970, and eventually I hope they get back to being completely trustworthy.

Would I get on their new airliner. Not likely.

Was their 'washing machine' sent to the Moon any good? No.

I just had my bathroom light fitting fail. It seems to be overheating, maybe dangerously. Just a few years old. Almost certainly Chinese.
The other fittings decades old are fine.

My Chinese 4 way extension lead caught fire.

Top quality Chinese optical glass is cheap, but it also fails to meet specs often and has to be rejected.

Some Chinese optics are really very good indeed, but I would not expect all to be good.

If I saw really good £1,500 Chinese optics and the competitor was £3,000 I would consider buying Chinese.
 
Chinese manufacturing can certainly turn out quality products, I find the stereotypes presented here fairly sinophobic. We've all had our share of cheap and disposable crap from China but we have also had the same experiences with lousy consumer products from other countries. While China does turn out a lot of "disposable" consumer goods, many high quality products are made in China these days. A lot of it comes down to standard factors - how much oversight the purchaser has of the OEM, prices and margins, time deadlines, etc. I have no inherent fear of expensive Chinese products and assume that quality will continue to rise as more knowledageble and establish brands source there.
 
I bought a Vortex Razor 12x50 from the Lacy WA Cabelas and it says made in Japan. It is a nice instrument.
I should state that was about two months ago.
 
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Seems many companies are moving production to China. They ship all their fancy equipment over there and set up shop. Cheap labor.
 
My iphone reads assembled in China... doesn't say where it was manufactured.

I'm wondering Vortex's ability to stay afloat??? Lifetime warranty is a steep (and unrealistic - binos and scopes break down someday) promise.

Does this now mean your Japan model gets replaced with the latest and greatest Chinese model???

CG
 
I bought a discontinued demo Viper 8.5x50 bino made in Japan. Clear enough though known for modest fov. A Viper HS 4-16x50 riflescope is made in the Philippines. Multiply power x fov comes up w/109.6' -118.4' and those are good numbers for medium price range glass. Also open box bought a couple of years later though less than the bins.
My Vulture Vortex 15x50 are beat up as lacking compared to others at 2x-4x+ price. I believe China is the manufacturing country sourced. Personally, handheld it is a mite harder to nitpick the view. For the price it cannot be beat and the Vortex warranty appears solid. If I used a tripod I as well might be harsher.

But, for around a C-note more than the 8.5 I've no complaints. As always, YMMV...
 
Chinese manufacturing can certainly turn out quality products, I find the stereotypes presented here fairly sinophobic. We've all had our share of cheap and disposable crap from China but we have also had the same experiences with lousy consumer products from other countries. While China does turn out a lot of "disposable" consumer goods, many high quality products are made in China these days. A lot of it comes down to standard factors - how much oversight the purchaser has of the OEM, prices and margins, time deadlines, etc. I have no inherent fear of expensive Chinese products and assume that quality will continue to rise as more knowledageble and establish brands source there.

Yup. This is all over Internet forums. We rely on things made in China on a daily basis to keep civilization going in big and small ways throughout the US. Two generations ago, the bigots of the day were saying the same things about Japanese goods due to Japanophobia after WWII. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
It's also interesting how every culture has its stereotypes. My wife and I just watched a great Korean horror film last night--The Wailing. Guess who the demon was? A Japanese man. Americans, who have largely been raised on a pro-Japanese diet in the last few decades due to technology, anime, and pornography, by far and large have no awareness of how the countries we perceive as "good" and "bad" aren't universally perceived as much around the world.

To return to the topic, I'm not part of the Euro-worshipping club when it comes to binoculars. I trust reviews and my own eyes, and would easily spend 1k on Vortexes (in particular, the 20x56 or 15x56 Kaibabs) if I could justify it.
 
The problem I have with vortex is that there's always something as good or better for less money. IMO of course.

Vortex has managed to slash $200 off the price of the Razors with the move to China

Razors, Conquests, Trinovids, Meostars, GPO's and HG's are all being listed for $999
 

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Vortex has managed to slash $200 off the price of the Razors with the move to China

Razors, Conquests, Trinovids, Meostars, GPO's and HG's are all being listed for $999

Kind of my point...

I can't speak for a GPO, but it would be an easy choice for me to pick one of the others listed over a MIC Vortex Razor HD. Heck, I would have picked a Conquest HD/Monarch HG BEFORE the move to China.

Now I'm not slighting made in China goods at all. I'll pay $500 for a top quality MIC binocular. I have several MIC binoculars right here. Most are VERY good to EXCELLENT quality. But no way would I pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS for a MIC Vortex Razor HD when I could get one of the others you mentioned for the same price! :eek!:
 
The country of origin doesn't factor in for me, and I suspect it does not for most of the public. Some will probably be put off if they know but most won't probably know. It comes down, I suspect, more to this: Vortex's warranty is great and the products are very good. I personally find better value and fit from other manufacturers, namely Zeiss / Nikon for competing price points from major players. Many other smaller producers crank out better QPR products too. I think Vortex makes great bins and their warranty is admirable. I recommend them to people who want to buy once and never worry. But I don't buy them. None of that has to do with where they were/are/will be made.
 
Vortex has managed to slash $200 off the price of the Razors with the move to China

Razors, Conquests, Trinovids, Meostars, GPO's and HG's are all being listed for $999

Good point, it seems the Razor is the only one you have mentioned that is made in China.

Vortex has never been on my go to list. Way too many other companies
that I would rather do business with.

I see them discounting more now than before, The Viper and Razor were
both previously made in Japan. So, I suppose the new Razor will end up
priced like the MIJ Viper, in the $600. range. Nobody can sell a $999.
China binocular.
The word is quickly spreading about the news with Vortex and China.

Jerry
 
..... I find the stereotypes presented here fairly sinophobic.
..... I can't speak for a GPO, but it would be an easy choice for me to pick one of the others listed over a MIC Vortex Razor HD. Heck, I would have picked a Conquest HD/Monarch HG BEFORE the move to China. ....But no way would I pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS for a MIC Vortex Razor HD when I could get one of the others you mentioned for the same price! *eek*
..... Nobody can sell a $999.
China binocular.
The word is quickly spreading about the news with Vortex and China.

Jerry

Sinophobic??!!! ....... puh-leeaaase !!!!!! *smacks head rolls eyes smilie* |^|

Cultural considerations have been, and are still, valid considerations in business investments, though mostly outweighed by the almighty $.

The stereotypes mostly hold true ;) :-
* The Germans are efficient and meticulous (though dour and humourless! :) |:||
* The Japanese are quality focused and deeply proud of it (though their innovation sometimes delves into the bizzare - like companion robots! :) :cat:
* The Americans are full of junk food and big and fat (consequently they give us large things - the Ford F150 is seen as a small runabout for the missus, a boy's toy is an F250, men's trucks begin with the F350, and real men drive a F650 - outfitted with an AR-15 semi-auto assault rifle, 50 caliber tactical weapon, and several 44 magnums!! :) |:p|
* The British unionized themselves straight out of the industrial revolution with inefficiency (but still have the wonderfully anachronistic and slightly crackers! Royal Family .... ) 3:)
* And the Chinese are the greatest copiers and ripoff merchants in the world (stuff might be shoddy, but it's quick and cheap) :eek!:

The Chinese have sucked a lot of the manufacturing capacity out of the world due to their Foreign Direct Investment laws and cheap labour, land, lax environmental laws and practices, and improving transport infrastructure. Due to these laws, many multinationals have set up manufacturing there, and the weight of that investment is moving the quality upstream, but the fundamental quality cultures of the Japanese and Germans is taking longer. Intellectual Property security is a greyer area - don't be surprised to see your confidential designs ripped off holus bolus and popping up on the Chinese, Russian, Iranian, and North Korean etc, markets, from where they will leak out unfettered into the world ....

Already, the Chinese are seeking to move upstream, some Joint Ventures offer leading edge automation, and they are more and more moving into the design and marketing and financing ends of the value chain. Innovation - wait and see ..... :t:

If the Kamakura sourced Vortex Razor HD APO's are now made in China, then can you bet that other Kamakura sourced designs are not too? A MIC Zeiss Conquest HD .... that explains a lot! With the lax labelling and sourcing laws, this is globalisation in action. All that's needed now is for the price of this class to drop to the $5-600 level where it belongs. B :)


Chosun :gh:
 
Chosun: Be careful, if the label says made in China it is China.

That is not true about others you have just mentioned.

Jerry
 
Jerry, as the forum has discussed many times before, the "made in" labeling is an absolute minefield .... as Jan has explained "Made in Germany" could mean performing the final operation in Germany for an overseas manufactured product. This could be as simple as affixing the actual "made in" label, attaching straps, packaging, etc, or any other number of totally inconsequential tasks. We know the Zeiss Conquest HD falls under this category, and the design is sourced from Kamakura, Japan. We also know that Kamakura has some manufacturing capacity in mainland China, and may source components, or even assemblies from local producers there.

Without actually seeing the commercial in confidence "Bill of Materials" and "Absorption Accounting" none of us can know for certain, but do not be surprised if that "Made in Germany" Zeiss Conquest HD, or any other brand trading on that image like "German" Precision Optics, or similarly Leica, or Nikon etc, is in fact actually ~99.8% manufactured in China ......

Different countries have different levels of rigour in their "made in" legislation. It looks like the combination of that, and the particular Vortex business process (transport) and model, has required them to label as MIC. It doesn't mean they are the only ones sourcing product there ....


Chosun :gh:
 
Kind of my point...

I can't speak for a GPO, but it would be an easy choice for me to pick one of the others listed over a MIC Vortex Razor HD. Heck, I would have picked a Conquest HD/Monarch HG BEFORE the move to China.

Now I'm not slighting made in China goods at all. I'll pay $500 for a top quality MIC binocular. I have several MIC binoculars right here. Most are VERY good to EXCELLENT quality. But no way would I pay a THOUSAND DOLLARS for a MIC Vortex Razor HD when I could get one of the others you mentioned for the same price! :eek!:


My point exactly, and better stated than I could. I also personally like the Toric UHD (Japanese) better as well, saving $300 in the meantime.
 
Jerry, as the forum has discussed many times before, the "made in" labeling is an absolute minefield .... as Jan has explained "Made in Germany" could mean performing the final operation in Germany for an overseas manufactured product. This could be as simple as affixing the actual "made in" label, attaching straps, packaging, etc, or any other number of totally inconsequential tasks. We know the Zeiss Conquest HD falls under this category, and the design is sourced from Kamakura, Japan. We also know that Kamakura has some manufacturing capacity in mainland China, and may source components, or even assemblies from local producers there.

Without actually seeing the commercial in confidence "Bill of Materials" and "Absorption Accounting" none of us can know for certain, but do not be surprised if that "Made in Germany" Zeiss Conquest HD, or any other brand trading on that image like "German" Precision Optics, or similarly Leica, or Nikon etc, is in fact actually ~99.8% manufactured in China ......

Different countries have different levels of rigour in their "made in" legislation. It looks like the combination of that, and the particular Vortex business process (transport) and model, has required them to label as MIC. It doesn't mean they are the only ones sourcing product there ....


Chosun :gh:

Chosun:

The made in China label, does not allow for much of anything made in
Japan, I suppose.

Kamakura seems to be doing a lot of business these days with many companies, and with design and all, this company is becoming a big
player.

If Vortex could say the Viper and Razor are made in Japan they should
make the binocular in Japan. The forums are already full of those that
are disappointed and miffed with Vortex, with this big change.

Jerry
 
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