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Candidate Northern Goshawk (July, N Apennines, Italy): opinions sought (1 Viewer)

Biancone

to err is human
I've got a bit of a puzzle. A couple of days ago (17 July 2018) I was overlooking a wooded valley in the northern Apennines looking primarily for Honey-buzzards in flight. Just after noon I spotted a raptor as it rose above the skyline, then a second below it. The first was certainly a Honey-buzzard, a pale bird circling quite briskly. My impression of the second was of another large raptor, medium dark above, perhaps brownish, but showing a large white area around the tail base which immediately suggested the undertail coverts of a possible Goshawk, always so eye-catching when flared. The distance, estimated between 1 and 1.5 km, did not allow me to see much significant detail (I don't use a scope) but the second bird was not moving as might be expected for a Goshawk and I realised it was carrying some substantial prey item. It soon moved back below the skyline and flew fast but with laboured wingbeats as it descended out of sight into the head of one of the smaller side valleys. The Honey-buzzard followed the same general course, keeping 50-100 metres above the second bird.

The narrative I immediately concocted in my head was that the second bird was a Goshawk that had snatched a recently hatched Honey-buzzard chick from the nest and was carrying it back to its own young (Goshawks breed relatively late here, with young flying in the second half of July), and the first bird was one of the deprived parents.

My little story is entirely plausible, but could be entirely wrong. Perhaps the proximity of first and second birds was just chance. Perhaps the second was not a Goshawk. Perhaps what I first thought were flared undertail coverts was the mainly white prey bird. Perhaps the prey was someone's white chicken.

But, disregarding my narrative, what about my hawk identification? Is there enough evidence in the images alone to confirm my first impression that it was a Northern Goshawk? Additional opinions welcome, including dissenting ones, with reasons why!

The first image below shows the general spatial relationship of both birds. The second is a composite strip of successive images of the second bird with prey, all frustratingly fuzzy. The dangling legs I'm sure belong to the prey. The horizontal orange line added to some images indicates the axis of the hawk's tail.

Brian
 

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Now I read... well, no idea of the prey, but I think a Goshawk can catch a young Honey Buzzard, as he catches preys that seems more difficult for him, but I've never read or see that.
 
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Clearly a Goshawk. In areas occupied by Goshawks, Sparrowhawks often decline markedly so, yes, they will predate other raptor species.

RB
 
Clearly a Goshawk. In areas occupied by Goshawks, Sparrowhawks often decline markedly so, yes, they will predate other raptor species.

RB
According to what I've read, Goshawks are a danger to HBs of any age. Also, BOPs seem to opportunistically raid each other's nests. Which is why some of them are so aggressive in nest defence against other raptor species, even individuals that are just passing through.
 
Thanks all for responding. I'm reassured you all agree with the accipiter ID! That encourages my belief that the story I immediately visualised could be what actually happened. Indeed it is pretty well known that Gos will take Honey young (even recorded on a New Forest nest cam apparently, although I never saw it). The thing that made me really suspect the Gos had a young Honey was the way the adult appeared to be keeping a close watch on events, circling in a very un-relaxed (ie. unusual) manner above as the Gos moved up the valley. Perhaps it's just as well that I'll never know for sure because one of my 'top three' birds eating another one of the top three feels a bit uncomfortable! Thanks again for replies.
Brian.
 
According to what I've read, Goshawks are a danger to HBs of any age.
Isn't this reported to be the driver of their visual mimicry of Common Buzzard - a heavier, stronger species that Gos are less willing to attack? If an HB resembles a CB more strongly, it is safer than one less similar.
 
Isn't this reported to be the driver of their visual mimicry of Common Buzzard - a heavier, stronger species that Gos are less willing to attack? If an HB resembles a CB more strongly, it is safer than one less similar.

Actually, there is visual mimicry on several African eagles species for that reason; there are even more potential predators of HB in Africa than in Europe.

I never heard about mimicry with HB, and they don't look alike; similarity of plumage, especially in immatures, with eagles such Cassins's, African Hawk- and others are much more striking.

EDIT: what you are saying about CB is written on Wikipedia page but with no reference.
 
Further to remarks above on mimicry. It's complicated! The usual idea is that Pernis may be Batesian mimics of eg. Spizaetus Hawk-eagles; others have suggested the reverse, that such powerful birds may derive benefit from resembling mild-mannered Pernis. But this argument doesn't apply to European Honey-buzzard on the breeding range. Duff (British Birds, March 2006, Vol. 99: 118-128) has a good discussion of these issues, including a summary of predation pressure by Northern Goshawk, and develops a very plausible proposal that juvenile Honeys are mimics of Common Buzzard (perhaps less plausible for pale juvenile Honeys).

Brian
 
Further to remarks above on mimicry. It's complicated! The usual idea is that Pernis may be Batesian mimics of eg. Spizaetus Hawk-eagles; others have suggested the reverse, that such powerful birds may derive benefit from resembling mild-mannered Pernis. But this argument doesn't apply to European Honey-buzzard on the breeding range. Duff (British Birds, March 2006, Vol. 99: 118-128) has a good discussion of these issues, including a summary of predation pressure by Northern Goshawk, and develops a very plausible proposal that juvenile Honeys are mimics of Common Buzzard (perhaps less plausible for pale juvenile Honeys).

Brian


Interesting !
 
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