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Astronomic binoviewer fitted to TSN 883/884--possible or no?

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Old Wednesday 7th November 2018, 18:12   #1
saidentary
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Astronomic binoviewer fitted to TSN 883/884--possible or no?

Would it be possible to use an astronomical eyepiece adapter to fit a high quality binocular viewing assembly onto a Kowa TSN-883 or TSN-884?

Has anyone tried this? Or has anyone researched this? (I'm guessing that this is a stupid idea that's totally unworkable for reasons that are obvious to most of this crowd, but I'll ask anyway...)*


*I also posted this question on cloudy nights.

Last edited by saidentary : Wednesday 7th November 2018 at 19:51.
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Old Thursday 8th November 2018, 13:56   #2
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Hi,

I have doubts that you will come to focus - binoviewers have quite a bit of optical path which will be more than the rather limited focus travel of the spotting scope can compensate. You could try to experiment with an adjustable barlow to get the focus point out and maybe come to focus.

Not recommended unless you happen to have the stuff on hand already... or s.b. in the astro club has...

Joachim
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Old Thursday 8th November 2018, 15:03   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jring View Post
Hi,

I have doubts that you will come to focus - binoviewers have quite a bit of optical path which will be more than the rather limited focus travel of the spotting scope can compensate. You could try to experiment with an adjustable barlow to get the focus point out and maybe come to focus.

Not recommended unless you happen to have the stuff on hand already... or s.b. in the astro club has...

Joachim
Fair enough. Thanks for the information.
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Old Thursday 8th November 2018, 19:47   #4
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To adapt: yes. To reach focus: no, unless you are available to see the image completely inverted.
Nowadays you have the alternative Swaro BTX.
You might be interested on having a look at http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescope...CR-binoviewing
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Old Thursday 8th November 2018, 22:14   #5
saidentary
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Your web site is amazing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRodrigues View Post
To adapt: yes. To reach focus: no, unless you are available to see the image completely inverted.
Nowadays you have the alternative Swaro BTX.
You might be interested on having a look at http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescope...CR-binoviewing
Your web site {http://www.pt-ducks.com} is astoundingly excellent. What a masterpiece of fine work. Such a web site exemplifies how the internet can be a great place. FWIW, I'm extremely impressed. Wow.....just......WOW.

I guess you could say that you have "all your ducks in a row."

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Old Friday 9th November 2018, 11:43   #6
AstroBird69
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This binoviewer might work with Kowa TSN-883. Zero optical path and erect image.

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p10297_TS-Optics-Binoviewer-1-0-magnification-zero-optical-path-and-erect-image.html
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Old Friday 9th November 2018, 17:17   #7
Canip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saidentary View Post


.....
.....

I guess you could say that you have "all your ducks in a row."
I disagree - they sit clearly side by side

(but I do agree that Davids website is a superb source of information, hugely interesting!)
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Old Saturday 10th November 2018, 00:53   #8
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Would this unit suggested in post #6 by AstroBird69 (https://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/opt...f-optical-path) be expected to work if an astro adapter were used with the kowa TSN 883 or TSN 884?

{Its description (on the Telescope Express site) says it has "built-in 100% compensation of the optical path" and that the "Bino extension can be used on all telescopes with 1.25" eyepiece connection, no additional optical path is required." But I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable to determine whether that means it would be expected to work.}

Last edited by saidentary : Saturday 10th November 2018 at 01:09.
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Old Saturday 10th November 2018, 14:20   #9
DRodrigues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saidentary View Post
Would this unit suggested in post #6 by AstroBird69 (https://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/opt...f-optical-path) be expected to work if an astro adapter were used with the kowa TSN 883 or TSN 884?
...
Yes, it probably will reach focus but it's the solution I mention on the previous post as "...To reach focus: no, unless you are available to see the image completely inverted." i.e. up side down and left to right... Additionally the image quality shouldn't be much good - see post 501 and following at https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/5...kmeier/page-21
I found a compact solution to use a refractor with a binoviewer for terrestrial use and straight view, but I'm still waiting for some adapter pieces I ordered... Will update my page when receiving these and will post a BF.
I'm glad my web-page is useful for some of you - it was my idea for doing it...
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Old Saturday 10th November 2018, 17:05   #10
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Hi David,

could you please explain why you think the image will be inverted with a spotting scope body (including a porro or roof prism based image erection assembly) and a binoviewer?

I fail to see why we should get an inverted image here...

The TS zero path binoviewer mentioned in the CN thread indeed seems to be not so great - the APM version unfortunately looks the same, so it's probably not so great also...

Joachim
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Old Saturday 10th November 2018, 22:40   #11
saidentary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRodrigues View Post
Yes, it probably will reach focus but it's the solution I mention on the previous post as "...To reach focus: no, unless you are available to see the image completely inverted." i.e. up side down and left to right... Additionally the image quality shouldn't be much good - see post 501 and following at https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/5...kmeier/page-21
I found a compact solution to use a refractor with a binoviewer for terrestrial use and straight view, but I'm still waiting for some adapter pieces I ordered... Will update my page when receiving these and will post a BF.
I'm glad my web-page is useful for some of you - it was my idea for doing it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jring View Post
Hi David,

could you please explain why you think the image will be inverted with a spotting scope body (including a porro or roof prism based image erection assembly) and a binoviewer?

I fail to see why we should get an inverted image here...

The TS zero path binoviewer mentioned in the CN thread indeed seems to be not so great - the APM version unfortunately looks the same, so it's probably not so great also...

Joachim
Thank you David and Joachim. That's helpful.
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Old Saturday 10th November 2018, 23:31   #12
DRodrigues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jring View Post
Hi David,

could you please explain why you think the image will be inverted with a spotting scope body (including a porro or roof prism based image erection assembly) and a binoviewer?

I fail to see why we should get an inverted image here...

...
Hi Joachim,
It's because we are discussing a special binoviewer that has 0 focus distance but also is an erector... So if in a spotting scope the image is already corrected, with this bino it will be inverted...
I have an old low cost binoviewer from Soligor that is also 0 focus distance and an erector, and it focus on my spotting scopes but with inverted image... This Soligor has other optical problems but I tried to use it with the Vixen erector on the Spotting scopes (see http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescope...age%20erectors), however the resulting image was no good, besides adding too much length of the combo. Just remembered that I might get a more compact solution but I don't expect better image quality and probably would not work with the TS binoviewer...
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Old Saturday 10th November 2018, 23:51   #13
saidentary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRodrigues View Post
Hi Joachim,
It's because we are discussing a special binoviewer that has 0 focus distance but also is an erector... So if in a spotting scope the image is already corrected, with this bino it will be inverted...
I have an old low cost binoviewer from Soligor that is also 0 focus distance and an erector, and it focus on my spotting scopes but with inverted image... This Soligor has other optical problems but I tried to use it with the Vixen erector on the Spotting scopes (see http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescope...age%20erectors), however the resulting image was no good, besides adding too much length of the combo. Just remembered that I might get a more compact solution but I don't expect better image quality and probably would not work with the TS binoviewer...
Okay guys, what about this one?

http://www.microglobe.co.uk/barr-and...e-p-10937.html

or this one:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ng_scopes.html

This one looks vaguely familiar........

https://www.optics-pro.com/instrumen...viewer/p,59336
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Old Sunday 11th November 2018, 01:29   #14
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The third one is similar to the TS.

The other 2 might work (the second link didn't worked for me but I found https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ng_scopes.html), but probably only with the included barlows (this second alternative should be the best for you because it has 2 barlows and is from USA store, easier to send back if you don't like). That means that the 32mm eps will be in fact equivalent to 17.3 or 10.7mm that will result on 29x and 47x, with probably <=50º AFOV. Probably only the 3x barlow will work so if 47x with 50º is ok to you, go forward and let us know what you think of it...
I remember exchanging e-mails with Olivon Europe about this binov but give-up after noticing that couldn't exchange eps and would be limited to 50º AFOV and high mags...
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Old Sunday 11th November 2018, 10:37   #15
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Hi David, hi Bill,

regarding the inverted image question, ok I had not seen any notice of image erection in the APM binoviewer ad - and I searched for it. If it does erection and the Kowa body does, this is obviously one time too much and we'll get an inverted image. But since the optical quality seems not so great, it's a moot point.

If Bill is dread set on getting binoviewing with his Kowa, I strongly recommend to talk to Harry Siebert of Siebert Optics about options. He probably can make you an optical path corrector to adapt any good Binviewer to your Kowa.

Joachim
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