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Old Sunday 3rd September 2017, 19:26   #76
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Hello,

A former member of the Forum wrote that at the top end, Leica, Zeiss, and Nikon, choice is mostly about personal preferences. Colour rendition, ergonomics. and contrast differ among the top brands as their engineers put together a design, which always includes compromises. The important thing is to try many models and pick the one that appeals to you.

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Old Friday 12th April 2019, 09:53   #77
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I notice the info on 10x32 models is not as extensive as on the 8x32s. And a second observation is that people think any model that has been on the market for quite some time can't be top by today's standards. Well, I'm in the market for a 32 model right now, but I have followed the evolution for over a decade. So in the end, it is still just Swarovski and Zeiss at the very top if you need sufficient eye relief (excludes Leica) and want a low weight (excludes Nikon) as well. Before having made a final decision, I need to post a stunning observation. I got a Zeiss 10x32 FL yesterday for test purposes, after having had the 8x counterpart for a few days already. And while I very much like the 8x for its extremely bright view, the 10x stunned me by its extremely fine saturated colors. I have never had a binocular to look through that gave me the impression "this one is it" before I even thoroughly compared it. I'll need to go through the routine under various light conditions, but I'd be surprised if I will not end up buying the Zeiss 10x32 FL. The problem this model has, it is not on the shelves of the dealers any more despite its superb qualities. My dealer had to order a demo model first. Swarovski is constantly coming up with new versions, so dealers keep them on the forefront. But from the persisting glare reports, one can judge that the most critical problem they have is still there.
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Old Friday 12th April 2019, 10:12   #78
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Originally Posted by Swissboy View Post
I notice the info on 10x32 models is not as extensive as on the 8x32s...
Hello Robert,

The 10x32 format is a not very popular. Possibly because of a belief that a smaller binocular is less stable than a larger glass, which is counter to my experience. Typically, eye relief is poor in this format, as in the Leica binoculars.

I agree that Zeiss achieved quite a lot in their 32 mm FL model but they are outliers in the FL Victory line as their 32mm models avoided the Abbe-Kōnig prisms and settled for the Schmidt-Pechan prisms, probably to minimize size. Zeiss may not be able to incorporate the improvements of the SF line in either an 8x32 or a 10x32, so their sale continues for the cognoscenti. My 10x32 FL is still working with only a worn Zeiss label showing wear after fourteen years.

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Old Friday 12th April 2019, 14:03   #79
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Arthur, this "belief" is a myth ? or is a big true ?

In the other hand, the S-P prisms ,what advantadges have in comparison to A-K prisms ?
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Old Friday 12th April 2019, 14:27   #80
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Arthur, this "belief" is a myth ? or is a big true ?

In the other hand, the S-P prisms ,what advantadges have in comparison to A-K prisms ?
Wachi.
Hello Wachi,

I recall reading a study, sent to me my Elkcub, an academic study of binocular use. The authors found no verification for the idea that a larger binocular was held steadier because of the mass. My personal experience among the Zeiss ClassiC 10x40, the Leica BN 10x50 and the Zeiss 10x32 FL, was that the latter was the easiest to hold steady. I have no experience with the SF binocular which is praised for its balance. So I do not consider it a "big true," but I am not dismissing it as myth. People differ in perception and in ergonomics.

Optically, the A-K prisms have higher transmission because the prism surfaces do not require reflective coating. The S-P design may be both more compact and lighter but it is not inherently better optically. Problems of transmission inherent in the earliest versions have been mostly resolved with dielectric mirrors.

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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 04:15   #81
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Originally Posted by Swissboy View Post
I notice the info on 10x32 models is not as extensive as on the 8x32s. And a second observation is that people think any model that has been on the market for quite some time can't be top by today's standards. Well, I'm in the market for a 32 model right now, but I have followed the evolution for over a decade. So in the end, it is still just Swarovski and Zeiss at the very top if you need sufficient eye relief (excludes Leica) and want a low weight (excludes Nikon) as well. Before having made a final decision, I need to post a stunning observation. I got a Zeiss 10x32 FL yesterday for test purposes, after having had the 8x counterpart for a few days already. And while I very much like the 8x for its extremely bright view, the 10x stunned me by its extremely fine saturated colors. I have never had a binocular to look through that gave me the impression "this one is it" before I even thoroughly compared it. I'll need to go through the routine under various light conditions, but I'd be surprised if I will not end up buying the Zeiss 10x32 FL. The problem this model has, it is not on the shelves of the dealers any more despite its superb qualities. My dealer had to order a demo model first. Swarovski is constantly coming up with new versions, so dealers keep them on the forefront. But from the persisting glare reports, one can judge that the most critical problem they have is still there.
Thanks for reviving an older thread on my favorite format, 10x32. I agree with almost everything you say. Based on my personal preferences and given all the usual caveats, and based on my current ownership and extensive use of all the following, I rank the alpha 10x32s as follows:

1. Nikon EDG II - most satisfying, immersive and color saturated image and best overall handling of various lighting conditions. Great ER. Not as bright as the other three but somehow for me this does not amount to a fault in that it does not compromise the image in any lighting conditions I have experienced. However, if it's too heavy for someone's preference, there is no disputing that.

2 SW SV FP package - very close second to EDG in all respects and controls glare much better than the 8x32 SV version (which i own and love) and does not have the rolling ball effect for me. So people who may be put off by the often reported "faults" of the 8x32 should not IMO forego testing the 10x32 version. Best ER of all. This bin is an "under rated gem" as another poster has said elsewhere.


3 Leica UVHD+ - beautiful Leica image, very compact, close 3rd behind EDG and SV, for me. But agreed, the ER may not be sufficient for many or even most who use with glasses which would eliminate the Leica entirely. I don't use glasses generally so the ER is not a deal breaker for me.

4. Zeiss FL T * - performs just as well as the others in some conditions and perhaps better in others (notably as in excellent handling a view which includes both bright light and shadow) but the following make it the clear 4th place finisher for my eyes. In low light and in bright overcast and against the light, all the other three perform noticeably better in terms of glare control, sharpness, brightness and resolution.

I can't tell from your post whether you have tested the Nikon and it's just too heavy for you, but if you haven't, you might want to give it a try. For a long time, the SV was my favorite but gradually over time, I have come to prefer the EDG over the others for the overall image quality and beautiful functioning of the focus mechanism.
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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 20:36   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwhogue View Post
………..
I can't tell from your post whether you have tested the Nikon and it's just too heavy for you, ……………..
No, I have not tried the Nikon, but I'm specifically looking for a light-weight type. I have had Zeiss 8x42 FLs for many years. I still like them very much, but at times, they are too heavy for my liking (I'm turning 77). On the other hand, my Leica 10x25s, while optically superb and really light-weight, their FOV is too narrow for regular use, and they are suboptimal at dawn/dusk and in dense forests. So I'm in search of that in-between type. My older Leica Trinovid 8x32 BA can't fill the gap any more for various reasons, ER being just one of them.

I will definitely look into the Swarovskis. But their new strap attachment is making me hesitate as it precludes easy switching to other types of straps.
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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 21:32   #83
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Swaro Strap Adapter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swissboy View Post
No, I have not tried the Nikon, but I'm specifically looking for a light-weight type. I have had Zeiss 8x42 FLs for many years. I still like them very much, but at times, they are too heavy for my liking (I'm turning 77). On the other hand, my Leica 10x25s, while optically superb and really light-weight, their FOV is too narrow for regular use, and they are suboptimal at dawn/dusk and in dense forests. So I'm in search of that in-between type. My older Leica Trinovid 8x32 BA can't fill the gap any more for various reasons, ER being just one of them.

I will definitely look into the Swarovskis. But their new strap attachment is making me hesitate as it precludes easy switching to other types of straps.
Hello,

SWAROVSKI in Absam/ Austria will send out an adapter with which conventional straps (like the BSP bino suspender Pro) can still be used on a new Field Pro Package SW EL binocular. As I had my binoculars registered, they did not charge me for that. And it was in the mail from Austria to Germany the next day after contacting them on their service platform.

Exchange is easy, see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJ0FS0N03c

Thanks again for that.
Michael
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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 22:03   #84
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I actually posted a reply and then saw this thread dates from July 2017.
I deleted the post.
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Old Saturday 13th April 2019, 23:35   #85
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Kevin, if you are inclined, please re post your reply. Your posts are always informative and enjoyable. Yes the thread originally started in 2017 but SwissBby in post # 77 wrote just yesterday seeking input.

Mike
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Old Sunday 14th April 2019, 01:21   #86
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Kevin, if you are inclined, please re post your reply. Your posts are always informative and enjoyable. Yes the thread originally started in 2017 but SwissBby in post # 77 wrote just yesterday seeking input.

Mike
OK, thanks for the kind words Mike.

If weight is the main criteria for going with a 32 mm bin, then I suggest a look at the Nikon 10x42 Monarch HG.
It weighs but an ounce more than your favorites, Mike, the EDG 10x32. Is but 7mm longer than the 32mm EDG, has a significantly wider FOV (6.9 degrees), and is generally compact for a 42mm bin.

Though I haven't used a 10x42 MHG, I do have an 8x42 MHG and think very highly of it indeed, to the degree it is my current favorite bin. Allbinos, weigh this as you will, rated the 10x42 extremely well.
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Old Sunday 14th April 2019, 01:51   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinewood View Post

Optically, the A-K prisms have higher transmission because the prism surfaces do not require reflective coating. The S-P design may be both more compact and lighter but it is not inherently better optically. Problems of transmission inherent in the earliest versions have been mostly resolved with dielectric mirrors.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
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Old Sunday 14th April 2019, 15:50   #88
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Thank you Arthur!
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Old Monday 15th April 2019, 00:22   #89
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I actually posted a reply and then saw this thread dates from July 2017.
I deleted the post.
I have done this numerous times, then realized the date, I had a few laughs....

Andy W.
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Old Monday 15th April 2019, 02:28   #90
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I actually posted a reply and then saw this thread dates from July 2017.
I deleted the post.
You have given 10x32 binoculars a new life!

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Old Monday 15th April 2019, 02:43   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinewood View Post
Hello,

A former member of the Forum wrote that at the top end, Leica, Zeiss, and Nikon, choice is mostly about personal preferences. Colour rendition, ergonomics. and contrast differ among the top brands as their engineers put together a design, which always includes compromises. The important thing is to try many models and pick the one that appeals to you.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
Arthur:

This thread has been revived, and your post seems very true, it is
mostly about personal preferences.

Most viewing on here can learn from that.

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 16th April 2019, 19:44   #92
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………….. Before having made a final decision, I need to post a stunning observation. I got a Zeiss 10x32 FL yesterday for test purposes, after having had the 8x counterpart for a few days already. And while I very much like the 8x for its extremely bright view, the 10x stunned me by its extremely fine saturated colors. I have never had a binocular to look through that gave me the impression "this one is it" before I even thoroughly compared it. I'll need to go through the routine under various light conditions, but I'd be surprised if I will not end up buying the Zeiss 10x32 FL. ………....
I have now had ample testing time, and it will have to be the 8x model for the simple reason that I can't steady the 10x sufficiently any more. It's a shame as I really would have liked the 10x both for its superb contrast and saturation, plus for the larger magnification. It would be complementing my 8x42 FL ideally. Same problem, by the way, with the Swarovski EL 10x32 (and 8x32). The Swarovskis had some additional shortcomings for my liking. While glare was about equal to the FL, it somehow irritated me more. Also, the Swaros' new strap attachment is complete BS for me, it is right where I need to place my left hand. I recall Zeiss had a similarly stupid positioning on their first version of the first Victories (8x40 and 10x40). They soon changed it there. Also, I prefer the slightly more yellowish rendition of the Zeiss view. Swaros are too cold, though neutral, for my liking. But that is clearly a personal thing. More serious is the fact that I can't warm up to the way the Swaro view changes as one moves the binoculars. It's not really a "rollerball" anymore, but it goes into that direction, more so in the 10x than the 8x model. So all things considered, the ease of view in the Zeiss 8x32 FL is clearly the best for me, it provides the least irritating view when I handhold the glasses for an extended time (just a few minutes). I should add that the Swaros have the most generous eye relief and thus provide the best "full view" for me (I need to wear my eye-glasses all the time). But I can manage very well with the ER the Zeiss 8x32 FL offers. (It was a bit more critical for the 10x, but also not the deal breaker.)
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Old Tuesday 16th April 2019, 20:17   #93
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I always avoided 10x32's because there is so much bad press on them but I recently tried a Swarovski SV FP 10x32 and it surprised me how good it is for such a smallish exit pupil. I had a new Canon 10x42 IS-L at the same time and I compared it closely over many days and I actually preferred the optics of the SV and the ergonomics and weight of the SV were way more convenient so it was a no brainer to keep the SV. I like the Field Pro package although many don't. It is easy to attach the strap and the strap doesn't get twisted as easy being able to rotate. It is also easy to adjust the length. The permanently attached objective covers and improved rainguard are a big improvement IMO.The big thing improvement I really like is the feel of the armour on the new FP. It just has a quality feel to it.
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Old Tuesday 16th April 2019, 20:46   #94
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...............The permanently attached objective covers and improved rainguard are a big improvement IMO.The big thing improvement I really like is the feel of the armour on the new FP. It just has a quality feel to it.
I agree that the solution for the objective covers is neat. But then, I usually don't use them anyway, they tend to be on when I need to have a quick view. So more of an irritation.
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Old Sunday 21st April 2019, 23:19   #95
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Hi Joachim,

I always think the Nikon's sit solid as a rock in the middle of the river no matter what goes on around them. Truly fab porros. The new 8x30 E II anniversary bins are always something i'd truly like, just because for no other reason I want them. Surely a collectors item of the future.

However, the quandary of acquiring a 10x roof of reasonable weight without spending silly money is in my bloodstream.

I'm scared of the consequences of picking up a Victory HT 10x42. Incidentally, does anyone know if Zeiss plan to bring out 8x and 10x32 HT's?
To add to the other responses, what I have read - and it makes sense to me, is that the market for 32 is very sensitive to size and weight. For this reason as well as bearing in mind that the 42 HTs have already been gone a year I don't think there's any likelihood of a 32 HT model in 8 or 10... and similarly (now I voice this I expect I'll be proved wrong soon) I'll go a step further and dare to say there won't be a 32 SF either. The 42 SFs already have very long barrels and that's just with S-P optics, which is what they'd need to put into 32s presumably.

Having said that I think the 8x42 HT I have from Troubadour is a damn fine instrument and easy to hold steady despite all the comment to the contrary. So if you get one it won't be the worst mistake you've ever made... I imagine the 10s are not going to be much different in character.

Tom

READING BACK AGAIN I SEE MOST OF THIS HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE. MODERATORS/ADM. FEEL FREE TO DELETE IF NECESSARY...

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Old Tuesday 23rd April 2019, 17:11   #96
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READING BACK AGAIN I SEE MOST OF THIS HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE. MODERATORS/ADM. FEEL FREE TO DELETE IF NECESSARY...
No worries. By that standard the vast majority of this forum's content could be safely deleted. :)
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Old Tuesday 23rd April 2019, 17:36   #97
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No worries. By that standard the vast majority of this forum's content could be safely deleted. :)
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