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B&W Nano coated 46mm clear filters on Zeiss 8x42HT

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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 22:59   #1
Robert Moore
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B&W Nano coated 46mm clear filters on Zeiss 8x42HT

I just bought these filters from B&H and thought I would share. I wanted to protect the front objective lens and keep the optical performance of the HT.
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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 23:08   #2
Robert Moore
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I wanted to get some for my Zeiss SF but unfortunately it does not have filter threads.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 03:46   #3
NDhunter
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Robert:

Your Zeiss binoculars should not be used with any filter on the objectives. The filter will only hurt the view in a big way. The Lotutec coatings also prevent scratches, so you need to reconsider, filters are only used by astro
viewers looking at the sun.

Jerry
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 03:57   #4
Alexis Powell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
...The filter will only hurt the view in a big way...
No, Robert's filters are of very high quality. Optically superb, and they have their own equivalent of LotuTec.

--AP
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 04:05   #5
wdc
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Does that count as 1 more, or 2 more, air to glass surfaces?

(virtual bb stacking question)

-Bill
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 05:44   #6
SteveTS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Moore View Post
I just bought these filters from B&H and thought I would share. I wanted to protect the front objective lens and keep the optical performance of the HT.
Good idea for protecting objectives from wind-blown sand, frequently an issue on the estuaries and flats here.

Regards, Steve
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 07:40   #7
Canip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc View Post
Does that count as 1 more, or 2 more, air to glass surfaces?

(virtual bb stacking question)

-Bill
My guess: 1 more air-to-glass and 1 more glass-to-air surface with, assuming decent coating quality, less than 1% loss of transmission in total
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 08:10   #8
garymh
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When the HT was first released Zeiss toyed with adaptor rings to fit 52mm filters to the objectives. In the end they did not go ahead.

Using polarising filters on them is a great way to cut reflections and see creatures in water.

Gary.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 09:16   #9
SteveTS
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I occasionally take a Byfield Tracker 8x56, a polarised binocular, for use on the estuary or to look over the lakes when the sun is very bright or very low. To be fair these, and polarising filters, are perhaps more suited to brighter climes.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 17:56   #10
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The B+W 46mm XS-Pro Clear MRC-Nano 007 Filter is a simple, clear filter with a 1x filter factor and is designed to provide general protection for your lens. This optically clear filter does not affect overall image quality while helping to reduce dust, scratches, moisture, and other elements from damaging your lens. To prevent internal ghosting and reflections while providing over 99.8% light transmission, each glass surface includes multiple layers of anti-reflection coating. This Multi-Resistant Coating (MRC) also offers greater protection to the filter substrate and helps it to stay clean for longer than with uncoated filters. The Nano coating associated with XS-Pro filters provides an additional eighth layer over the MRC, resulting in an improved beading effect when in contact with water for greater cleaning efficiency.

B+W filters are constructed from Schott glass for increased optical clarity and color fidelity. This filter features a thin brass filter ring to minimize the potential for vignetting while enhancing durability and jamming prevention. To further reduce the possibility of vignetting while using this filter, the filter ring's outside diameter is slightly larger than the actual thread size. This may prevent the use of some lens manufacturer bayonet hoods.
General protection filter reduces dust, moisture, and scratches from reaching lens elements.
Does not require adjustments to exposure while in use.
Multicoated to prevent internal ghosting and reflections while providing over 99.8% light transmission.
Nano coating provides an improved beading effect with water for more efficient cleaning.
Creates no additional coloration or contrast.
Constructed from Schott glass for optical clarity.
Thin brass filter ring helps to prevent vignetting, jamming, and provides additional strength.
Plastic case for storage and transport.


99.8 percent light transmission so I am only losing .02% and they are optically excellent. I just want to keep this Zeiss HT in absolute new condition since they dont make them anymore.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 19:26   #11
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Astro users use colour filters when viewing planets to enhance features not seen without filters.
Also for viewing deep sky objects.
For imaging, a filter wheel can have up to ten filters.

A good clear filter will have about zero impact at 10x.
It might start to degrade the view at 100x and will probably be noticed 200x.

I wonder if in fact the water repelling layer gives 100% transmission.
I doubt it.
I would query whether 99.8% total transmission is achieved in practice.

The Canon 18x50 IS has threads.
Personally, I only use polarising filters for viewing and photography.
My Minolta lenses rarely had filters and with careful use I don't think I ever scratched one.

Wearing polarising sunglasses, a weird thing happens with the Canon G15 screen if I turn it upright.
The screen goes completely black and I can't see anything.
But the viewfinder still works.

I think that B and W used to be part of Schneider, but am not sure.

B.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 20:57   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binastro View Post
Astro users use colour filters when viewing planets to enhance features not seen without filters.
Also for viewing deep sky objects.
For imaging, a filter wheel can have up to ten filters.

A good clear filter will have about zero impact at 10x.
It might start to degrade the view at 100x and will probably be noticed 200x.

I wonder if in fact the water repelling layer gives 100% transmission.
I doubt it.
I would query whether 99.8% total transmission is achieved in practice.

The Canon 18x50 IS has threads.
Personally, I only use polarising filters for viewing and photography.
My Minolta lenses rarely had filters and with careful use I don't think I ever scratched one.

Wearing polarising sunglasses, a weird thing happens with the Canon G15 screen if I turn it upright.
The screen goes completely black and I can't see anything.
But the viewfinder still works.

I think that B and W used to be part of Schneider, but am not sure.

B.

You are correct it says Schneider on the box.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 21:37   #13
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My experience is this. I had a camera lens filter, a UV, or skylight filter, and tried it on my
Nikon ED50 spotting scope, it affected the view markedly, by darkening the view, and it also
seemed to give off some reflections.

Binoculars are optimized for anti-reflection by using very high quality coatings on the objective
lenses. All "nano" means is just marketing jargon.

So, I don't think much of filters, they will offer protection, and that is good, otherwise not so good for
optimal viewing.

Jerry
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 21:51   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
My experience is this. I had a camera lens filter, a UV, or skylight filter, and tried it on my
Nikon ED50 spotting scope, it affected the view markedly, by darkening the view, and it also
seemed to give off some reflections.

Binoculars are optimized for anti-reflection by using very high quality coatings on the objective
lenses. All "nano" means is just marketing jargon.

So, I don't think much of filters, they will offer protection, and that is good, otherwise not so good for
optimal viewing.

Jerry

I will leave them on for a week or two than take them off and see if I notice a difference. These are not ND filters and are supposed to be perfectly clear thats why I thought I would try them. If they protect the lens with no noticeable detriment to the view than that is what I was after.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 22:14   #15
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Robert, Gary.

When I met with Gerold Dobler, (the product manager behind the HT and SF) a few years back, I asked about filters. He acknowledged he was in favour. We were mostly discussing colour balances, rather than polarising filters, but I have no reason to think they would have been excluded as an option. He regretted there was substantial opposition to the proposal from within the company, but wasn't prepared to explain why.

David

Last edited by typo : Saturday 12th October 2019 at 22:17.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2019, 23:03   #16
Binastro
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There is a big difference between a low cost Korean or Chinese filter and a Schneider filter, usually B and W, although Schneider may make own name filters for Schneider lenses.

Schneider is up to, and sometimes exceeding, Zeiss quality.

As with Zeiss, who made lower cost lenses, Schneider used the name Isco for their lower priced lenses and optics.

I have some old Hoya filters, which are awful optical quality, although Hoya now seem to make better quality filters, even with their lower cost versions.

I don't like filters, but would be happy using Zeiss, B and W, Hassleblad, Nikon, Canon, Minolta or Sony filters. Also new Kowa ones. Soviet era filters are high quality but lack coatings usually.
Modern high transmission, high quality filters with top coatings should be fine on binoculars if needed.

If the light source is strong enough even a claimed 99.8% transmission filter will show faint ghost images.

UV and Skylight filters cut out some light so will be dimmer. They come in different shades also. Some may look pink.

Using filters on a scope is more demanding than on an 8x binocular.

B.

Last edited by Binastro : Saturday 12th October 2019 at 23:11.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 02:10   #17
Alexis Powell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
My experience is this. I had a camera lens filter, a UV, or skylight filter, and tried it on my
Nikon ED50 spotting scope, it affected the view markedly, by darkening the view, and it also
seemed to give off some reflections.

Binoculars are optimized for anti-reflection by using very high quality coatings on the objective
lenses. All "nano" means is just marketing jargon.

So, I don't think much of filters, they will offer protection, and that is good, otherwise not so good for
optimal viewing.

Jerry
Obviously, you had a cheap filter of poor quality. A lot of those are sold (or given away as free perks) for protecting camera lenses at the expense of optical quality. The coatings on B+W filters are every bit as good as any you will find on today's top-end bins. Yes, "nano" is a B+W marketing term but it isn't meaningless, just as LotuTec isn't meaningless. Both denote the use of water and grime-shedding coatings. If you want the best of both worlds--lens protection without measurable effect on viewing or your photography--you might be interested in giving high quality filters a try. Unfortunately, they are expensive relative to lenses of comparable quality. I don't use clear filters with my camera lenses except sometimes at the seashore, but I have a B+W circular polarizer in 77 mm with nano coatings that I think was ~$100 in cost.

--AP
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 03:06   #18
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My beef with filters is that condensation can build on the inside of the filter. The view gradually deteriorates, so it creeps up on the hapless owner.
I switched to a rubber lens hood for my ED50 and metal hoods/glare shields for my Canon 10x42.
Birding when there is blowing sand is perhaps the only time a filter is really needed, hoods will serve equally well otherwise imho.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 05:09   #19
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Good point on condensation and would be something to watch out for in changing temperatures for sure.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 05:36   #20
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Would the effectiveness of baffling on the objective rim be reduced against glare with the filters?

Andy W.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 06:06   #21
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So far I have not noticed any glare issues and have been testing for it. I also have been looking at bright light sources to look for ghosting and have not noticed that yet either.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 07:47   #22
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I have used B&W filters on all of my Canon photographic lenses for years. IMHO they are alpha products and I can't see any reason why they would not serve well when fitted to binoculars.

Lee
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 14:58   #23
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Thanks Lee,

So far they have proven to be excellent.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 17:17   #24
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Etudiant,
That may be why Zeiss were concerned about filters as fungus could take hold on glass, metal and rubber.

Andy,
There could be an increase in glare using filters. Maybe lens hoods would help.

Basically, one has to match the optical quality of the filter to the quality of optics it is mounted on.

Top quality, randomly picked B and W filters should be O.K. on most binoculars.
However, with a Zeiss 20x60S, Takahashi 22x60, Japanese and German 80mm binoculars and observation binoculars such as APM, Vixen, Miyauchi etc. they may not be good enough.
Here a Kowa spotting scope filter might be better, as the quality is probably designed for high quality spotting scopes.

The Kowa spotting scope filters may not be good enough for high magnifications on high quality astro scopes.
I would avoid filters altogether here at the front, or use a high quality optical window, which could be very expensive.

Questar filters are probably O.K. up to 200x.
Soviet MTO ~105mm filters are O.K. at 100x.

Filters for top end 600mm f/4 camera lenses are probably O.K. at 100x.
Leica filters should be very good.

Some of these filters and optical windows won't have the best coatings.

Regards,
B.
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Old Sunday 13th October 2019, 18:45   #25
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On my telescopes for astronomy I only use filters at the eyepiece and not on the objective lens with the exception of solar filters and those are used at the objective lens. Never use solar filters at the eyepiece except for a Herschel wedge Which is designed to only let a small percentage of the light to the eyepiece and the rest is directed off axis
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