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Zeiss Victory 8x42 SF 524223 REVIEWS?

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Old Sunday 16th December 2018, 17:02   #126
PlanetMaker
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Yes I remember reading your review, will have to do mine someday soon too
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 19:23   #127
james holdsworth
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Originally Posted by Tobias Mennle View Post
I tested an early grey one years ago, a somewhat faulty sample, and disliked it. I played around with an MK2 black one a week ago and was very pleased to see the coatings are now much lower intensity, reflecting red/tobacco, yellow, and blue. Colour reproduction seemed very similar to the Leicas I had for comparison which was not at all the case with the early grey SFs. Sharpness and contrast similar to the Swarovision I had at hand (with the Swarovision being way to blue in colour). So the main remaining issue with the SF IMO is if one finds the distortion/globe effect acceptable.
Is there any other evidence that Zeiss changed the AR coatings on the black versions of the SF? Not that I don't believe Tobias, but you would think more than one person would notice.
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 20:12   #128
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I don't believe the T* coating was changed from grey SFs to black ones. Can't see a difference between my old grey 10x and the newer black 8x and a coating change has never been mentioned by Gerry Dobler.

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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 21:48   #129
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Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
Is there any other evidence that Zeiss changed the AR coatings on the black versions of the SF? Not that I don't believe Tobias, but you would think more than one person would notice.

Subjective truth only means someone is honestly relating their impressions at that moment. We are not dealing with measurable facts, until proven otherwise. Last April on this forum the same poster described the grey SF in these terms: posts 44 and 45:
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...ht=joke&page=2

"SF is dark and not especially 3D. A strange bin."

"The SF birdwatching thing is a bad joke. Why should a birdwatching bin have a strong green cast to increase contrast except to save Zeiss precision in manufacturing?"

Now, to the same individual's eyes, the revised SF with a new black armored sheath, revised focusing, and improved eyecups, also has achieved color reproduction that is on par with Leica, while attaining sharpness and contrast similar to Swarovski, though it is not at all evident that these specific characteristics were altered by the manufacturer in the revision process.

Even if the product spec hasn't necessarily changed to reflect these new perceptions, it is still nice to know that one's subjective evaluations can evolve in a more rational and positive direction, when given the opportunity.

Bravo Tobias!


-Bill

Last edited by wdc : Saturday 12th January 2019 at 04:28. Reason: clarity
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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 00:40   #130
james holdsworth
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So the coating colour reflections have not changed? It would be strange that Tobias would see different colours reflected back but no one else does...how about some photos of each, side by side...
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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 06:32   #131
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Originally Posted by wdc View Post
Subjective truth only means someone is honestly relating their impressions at that moment. We are not dealing with measurable facts, until proven otherwise. Last April on this forum the same poster described the grey SF in these terms: posts 44 and 45:
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...ht=joke&page=2

"SF is dark and not especially 3D. A strange bin."

"The SF birdwatching thing is a bad joke. Why should a birdwatching bin have a strong green cast to increase contrast except to save Zeiss precision in manufacturing?"

Now, to the same individual's eyes, the revised SF with a new black armored sheath, revised focusing, and improved eyecups, also has achieved color reproduction that is on par with Leica, while attaining sharpness and contrast similar to Swarovski, though it is not at all evident that these specific characteristics were altered by the manufacturer in the revision process.
The first few (grey) Zeiss SF DID have a fairly strong greenish colour cast. I tried two different binoculars (8x42 and 10x42) on different occasions and in different lighting conditions, and the colour cast was obvious to me. Both were very early versions, bought immediately after the SF became available.

When I tried a couple of the later (black) versions, I didn't see that colour cast anymore. I still wouldn't call the colour reproduction "neutral" but it's pretty close.

It's well known that manufacturers like Zeiss and the other "big players" continually work on their coatings and so on, so I don't find that surprising at all.

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Old Saturday 19th January 2019, 20:14   #132
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"Kunstsoff" is I believe German for plastic.
The meaning of 'Kunststoff' -- note spelling includes an extra t -- can be wider than 'plastic'. It covers manmade / synthetic material or substance.

I believe that the plural 'Kunststoffe' is used to mean 'plastics'; however the words 'Plastik' also exists and is generally the word used in the singular: e.g. 'aus Plastik' meaning 'made of plastic'.

The word 'Kunst' in compounds can signify art or something artificial. 'Kunst' on its own as a distinct word means 'art' or 'skill'.

Forgive me for getting so animated about this and indulging my interest in languages -- something I'm better at than bird identification (not that that is saying much)!

Tom

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Old Yesterday, 08:00   #133
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Originally Posted by SeldomPerched View Post
The meaning of 'Kunststoff' -- note spelling includes an extra t -- can be wider than 'plastic'. It covers manmade / synthetic material or substance.

I believe that the plural 'Kunststoffe' is used to mean 'plastics'; however the words 'Plastik' also exists and is generally the word used in the singular: e.g. 'aus Plastik' meaning 'made of plastic'.

The word 'Kunst' in compounds can signify art or something artificial. 'Kunst' on its own as a distinct word means 'art' or 'skill'.

Forgive me for getting so animated about this and indulging my interest in languages -- something I'm better at than bird identification (not that that is saying much)!

Tom
Hi Tom

While you are in besserwisser German-language-mode (meant in the friendliest of ways ) could you tell us something about the meaning of 'plasticity' as translated from the German. Leica has made much of the 'plasticity' of view of the Noctivid and previous attempts to deduce what is meant by this have concluded it means something close to a 3D view.

Lee
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Old Yesterday, 08:21   #134
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Originally Posted by wdc View Post
Subjective truth only means someone is honestly relating their impressions at that moment. We are not dealing with measurable facts, until proven otherwise. Last April on this forum the same poster described the grey SF in these terms: posts 44 and 45:
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...ht=joke&page=2

"SF is dark and not especially 3D. A strange bin."

"The SF birdwatching thing is a bad joke. Why should a birdwatching bin have a strong green cast to increase contrast except to save Zeiss precision in manufacturing?"

Now, to the same individual's eyes, the revised SF with a new black armored sheath, revised focusing, and improved eyecups, also has achieved color reproduction that is on par with Leica, while attaining sharpness and contrast similar to Swarovski, though it is not at all evident that these specific characteristics were altered by the manufacturer in the revision process.

Even if the product spec hasn't necessarily changed to reflect these new perceptions, it is still nice to know that one's subjective evaluations can evolve in a more rational and positive direction, when given the opportunity.

Bravo Tobias!


-Bill
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Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
So the coating colour reflections have not changed? It would be strange that Tobias would see different colours reflected back but no one else does...how about some photos of each, side by side...
How about throwing unit to unit variation into the mix ?!
And while there may have been no deliberate (or even arbitrary ) change in coatings from Grey to Black armoured versions, GiGi recently posted some mail from Zeiss that coatings are constantly (periodically) upgraded (as Swarovski does too) - so perhaps that is at play too ?!
Perhaps ze Germans just got sick of Green Ham ?!
Perhaps it's global warming ?!
Perhaps the bins /life, viewed immediately prior had a weird distorting effect on the colour palette ?!
Or perhaps other environments have changed - perhaps different light bulbs, different time of day, angle of light, age and condition of the eyes ?!

Curiouser and curiouser .......




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Old Today, 00:21   #135
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Chosun:

Oh Ye, of little experience, please back off your criticism. It is very annoying.


Jerry

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Old Today, 09:02   #136
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Chosun, post 134,
The SF sample we have investigated did not show any green cast, so you idea, that Zeiss changed coatings and that we have to distinguish between "green"and "non-green" SF's seem tempting, but it is a lot of work and if we have to buy them ourselves you must at least be president of the US to have enough funding.
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Old Today, 10:07   #137
Chosun Juan
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Chosun, post 134,
The SF sample we have investigated did not show any green cast, so you idea, that Zeiss changed coatings and that we have to distinguish between "green"and "non-green" SF's seem tempting, but it is a lot of work and if we have to buy them ourselves you must at least be president of the US to have enough funding.
Gijs van Ginkel
Hi Gijs , if Zeiss is indeed upgrading and changing coatings (as GiGi reported, and as Swarovski seem to also do) outside of defined model upgrades or step changes (such as the SF Grey -> Black change) , then is there any way of identifying these 'change points' by serial number that they would release to the public ? Perhaps some of our industry insiders and dealers may be able to clarify ?



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Old Today, 15:50   #138
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I have checked with two dealers, one in the UK and the other on continental Europe and neither has been informed of any changes to the SF coatings. Neither of them has seen a green cast and neither has noticed a change in the view through SFs from the early grey ones to the later black models.

And if there is a temptation to say 'they would say that wouldn't they?', both of these are multi-brand dealers who don't mind which binos you buy as long as they are the right ones for you and they are very familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of all their products and openly discuss them.

Lee
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Old Today, 17:49   #139
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I would still like to see a side-by-side of the gray and black objectives...anyone?
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