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Upton Warren (13 Viewers)

Sy V said:
What-o me old bluenose mucker!

John, you're a sucker for punishment but your seemingly endless commitment is commendable!
This is difficult to portray, not only 'cos I've got to paint a word picture but also because of the unknown new hide and the exact layout of fences etc. So, I'll try to précis my thoughts:
Your third attachment shows (essentially) 4 longitudinal channels going away from the hide. This provides the waders (Snipe etc) with some great feeding (when flooded) and good cover from both the elements and any marauding raptors. It also maximises the viewing opportunities with only the minimum of 'dead ground' in the foreground where the longitudinal channels are joined together by a lateral channel.

Looking at your second photo, this shows the leftmost longitudinal channel (albeit a bit wide to describe as a channel) and the lateral channel right in front of the hide. This area is also (of course) the main access for the work parties and associated equipment, but notwithstanding the access argument, the water level maintenance in this specific area might be easier if these two areas of channelling were joined.

Finally, your first picture shows the salt flats frequented by feeding Linnets and the main channel in front of the hide (which has been subject to repeated dredging since its inception). I think this should be continued and supplemented perhaps. There's no disputing the dead ground afforded by the near bank of this channel (and there isn't an awful lot that's practicable to address it. However, when the silt is dug out, can the majority be excavated from the nearest bank so that the furthest bank forms a shelf on which the waders can feed/wander whilst still being visible to the occupants of the hide (and hopefully even to those in the cheap seats downstairs) J for JOKE! To supplement this vista could consideration be given to adding two lateral channels running away from the hide perpendicular to the existing channel but not to jeopardise the access routes (I realise that this would involve some serious earth moving) to further enhance the view-ability in the immediate vicinity of the hide.
My thoughts as invited.

SJV
Click to expand...

Can you say that again 8-P J for joke!:-O
Sy with your superior technical know how, a picture paints a1000 words.
Is it possible to superimpose on to the photos. I get your points but it would be good to actually see what you envisage.
B :)John
 
upstarts1979 said:
Phil /Gav/Pau/l Gert and everyone else interested

I will Definitely be doing this coming Sunday 16th and who knows next one as well. I don't like putting on people with too many work parties especially with those who work during the week. However when people show enthusiasm to do the work, then that's what drives me on. Upton is a place that you either love or hate, for various reason. It does help that as birders / photographers we can change things (within guidelines) without all that 'red tape', expecting the Trust to be pro-active in this instance, just wont happen. So let's go for it.
I have posted 3 Photos (all in front of the hide panning from north to south 7th Aug 2011 - the water level was 0.26) To benefit us and the birds these are the areas to be worked on, in my opinion. The work will also benefit breeding waders next spring/summer. Give it some thought, and chip in with some ideas. Discussion open.
B :)John
Click to expand...

John - de silting and grading the sides of the existing channels is probably the best start and see how we go. :t:
 
Gertatron said:
John - de silting and grading the sides of the existing channels is probably the best start and see how we go. :t:
Click to expand...

I agree mate:t:
I suppose we will have to see how dry/wet the channels are and where to put the spoil will be worth thinking about.
Also the more people we get will make a difference, it would be ironic if on the 6th Nov (official work party day) the place is flooded. Mind you Paddy Powell would give you 100-1 on that one8-P
 
Gert

I tend to agree, but here's what I had in mind (in haste)... with the edited bits denoting new excavations.
 

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Sy V said:
Gert

I tend to agree, but here's what I had in mind...
Click to expand...

Now I see what you mean.
Wow mate if only we could dig it as quick:smoke:
re pic 1. that would be an excellent option for the poor people, - cheap seats in the ground floor :-O.
Re pic 2 AFJ has told the trust he would pay for this exact option. I think it would be a big task manually, but now seeing how it looks is better than I had appreciated. I think Mike has reservations about this option, I'm sure he will add his comments.
The 'sluice basin' Pic 3 as it is known 1 to 4 is definitely feasible this weekend and as you alluded to good for snipe.
nice 1 mateB :)john
 
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I've just been reminded by Hayley that it's her birthday on sunday 23rd so I won't make that day, sorry as it was my suggestion, but still ok for the 16th :t:
 
Gertatron said:
Like the idea in picture 2. It could almost be a 'mini' beach if wide enough - I suppose we need to be wary of any salt plants.
Click to expand...
Why Gert? the Trust aren't re Phragy8-P:-O
Only Joking ..you don't know who is watchingo:D

Yes I must agree no 2 does look good, the only problem is that until you are at ground level, you cannot appreciate how much the ground rises there.
 
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Back to reality after a week on Shetland.
Today's highlights:

FLASHES:
Green Sand------------------------Curlew (23)
Lapwing (99)----------------------Teal (14)
Meadow Pipit (3)------------------Yellowhammer (2)
Skylark----------------------------Swallow (4)
Redpoll (c30) over----------------Rook (2)
B H Gull (154)--------------------Stock Dove (54)
Herring Gull (3) over.

MOORS:
Shoveler (16)---------------------Teal (32)
Pochard (1m)---------------------Snipe (4)
Kingfisher-------------------------Siskin (2)
Cormorant (13)-------------------Little Grebe (2)
Green Sand

HEN POOL: SAILING POOL:
Water Rail Grey Wagtail


Des.
 
upstarts1979 said:
I agree mate:t:
I suppose we will have to see how dry/wet the channels are and where to put the spoil will be worth thinking about.
Also the more people we get will make a difference, it would be ironic if on the 6th Nov (official work party day) the place is flooded. Mind you Paddy Powell would give you 100-1 on that one
Click to expand...

I tend to place my bets at Paddy POWER - you get better odds there! 8-P
 
Doh! I've obviously misunderstood I thought we were talking about the channels out on the mud.

I think Sy's proposals look great - but you're the guys who know the reserve and its clientele, so I'm just happy to do whatever you think will help. I'll be there on Sunday as early as I can - unless my car finally packs up.
 
upstarts1979 said:
Now I see what you mean.
Wow mate if only we could dig it as quick:smoke:
re pic 1. that would be an excellent option for the poor people, - cheap seats in the ground floor :-O.
Re pic 2 AFJ has told the trust he would pay for this exact option. I think it would be a big task manually, but now seeing how it looks is better than I had appreciated. I think Mike has reservations about this option, I'm sure he will add his comments.
The 'sluice basin' Pic 3 as it is known 1 to 4 is definitely feasible this weekend and as you alluded to good for snipe.
nice 1 mateB :)john
Click to expand...

We need to remember that the hide will be shuffled forward by 6/7 feet from the position in thinking about any new channels. I am also concerned about the amount of foreshore we are losing year on year as part of the removal of the encroaching reeds as there doesnt appear to be another (acceptable) solution.

I think that cutting off the peninsular to make an island is initially attractive BUT it would be very hard work by hand given this is solid land. Could be done with a mini-digger but think the money could be better used elsewhere on the reserve. We also need to consider that we undertake a lot of wheel-barrow journeys down the spit; whilst we could install a bridge each time experience shows that they tend to get slippy and dangerous.
 
Yes, the minimizing of dead ground that the forward positioning of the hide may bring is very attractive Phil. Notwithstanding the dangers of a possible bridge (either permanent or removable) what if someone happened to turn up with a digger one morning when the hide construction (and presumably access across the transmitter field) was underway. No promises but a few favours could be called in, perhaps.
 
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I have another volunteer for channel digging on Sunday. Pete, the retired teacher who helped with the Tern Raft would like to come down and lend a hand... and he ain't even a photographer, never mind a birder!
 
upstarts1979 said:
I think Mike has reservations about this option, I'm sure he will add his comments.
Click to expand...

My reservation about AFJ's proposal was that to make a channel wide enough and deep enough, given the height of the land there, would remove much of the grassland in front of the hide. As we are already losing much of the grassland at the Flashes due to subsidence/phragmites encroachment is this a good idea? As well as being where a good selection of butterflies are seen each summer, the area is used by Lapwing and Redshank to (attempt to) breed. Can we afford to lose such habitat in return for more passage wader habitat?

As Sy's illustration in Pic.2 is much the same as AFJ's proposal, I'd have the same reservations.

Mike
 
Sy V said:
Yes, the minimizing of dead ground that the forward positioning of the hide may bring is very attractive Phil. Notwithstanding the dangers of a possible bridge (either permanent or removable) what if someone happened to turn up with a digger one morning when the hide construction (and presumably access across the transmitter field) was underway. No promises but a few favours could be called in, perhaps.
Click to expand...

Hi Sy - I think you may have misunderstood what I was (unsuccessfully) trying to say. My comments are the same as Mike's. I dont view the area between the hide and the foreshore as "dead ground" but an excellent area for foraging young LRP and having the highest concentration of Lapwing and Redshank breeding attempts (as well as providing observers amazing close views compared to other reserves). The shuffling forward of the hide will reduce this vital area, as will the ongoing need to remove phraggy and their extensive rhyzomes. A channel will unfortunately even further reduce this portion of land.
 

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