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Nikon SE Update (1 Viewer)

Hi Brock



May be this is too simple reasoning, but: if you go to www.nikon.com (more specific: http://www.nikon.com/products/sportoptics/lineup/binoculars/nature/index.htm), they still have the EII's and the SE's in their current product series. Isn't it more logical to remove them there, if they would not produce them any longer?


Ciao!

Buongiorno Pepino,

I am a big Nikon fan as I'm sure everyone knows who has read my posts, however, Nikon is not the best when it comes to updating or maintaining their Website.

For example, at one point, the 12x50 SE disappeared from their Website. I wrote Nikon to ask if they had dropped the 12x model, and I received the response that it was an oversight, the webmaster just forgot to add the information about the 12x SE model!

There was another case where a new model, perhaps it was the Monarch X, or what they are unimaginatively calling the 42mm ATB (regular Monarch with dielectric coatings), was already out in the stores, but it wasn't listed on the Website.

In fact, the old Nikon Website was poorly designed. It's much better now, but I noticed that the SE is neither included under birding binoculars (where they have listed the EDG, Premier, Monarch X, 42mm ATB, and Monarch ATB) nor hunting binoculars (which lists the same models). It's sort of the odd man out. It's only listed in the general binoculars section.

http://www.nikonbirding.com/binoculars.html

http://www.nikonhunting.com/page/catalog/1

What I gather from the SEs still being on Nikon's Website is that they have not sold all of their old stock rather than an indication that production is ongoing and that we will be seeing an 8x32 SE 551, 552, 553, etc. in coming years.

Nikon stopped making the SE for five years, but except for the 12x SE glitch, the SEs have always been listed on Nikon USA Website even when they were no longer being produced from 2003 to 2008.

A better indicator of ongoing production would be someone posting that they bought a 551xxx 8x32 SE. Or perhaps in 2012, we'll see a 560xxx on the 5th anniversary of the re-release of the SE?

I'm just happy that they brought it back for the 550 run, and I would love to get my hands on one to compare with my 505 model to see if anything changed in the five years intervening btwn production runs as it did in the intervening years between the 501 and 505 models (coatings upgrade).

Despite wishful thinking on my part and others, I do not see the SE being significantly changed even if they do another run.

Just as Swaro stuck with the same Habicht porro design for years, I think Nikon will keep the SE as it is, perhaps upgrading the coatings now and then as Swaro has, but still the same basic binoculars.

Perhaps that's why Nikon has kept the SE "alive". It gives Nikon products to compete with Swarovski in the high quality porro market.

I still hope against hope for a porro revival, but I think the roof market now is so strong and diversified that scenario is unfortunately unlikely.

When this generation has passed (the Boomers), high quality porros will likely go the way of the dinosaur. Porros are already in the death throws of the K-T Boundary Event.

Someday your great grandchildren will go to technology museum and see these funny looking dog legged bi-optics and ask what that are.

Clark: "Those, Lois, were what binoculars looked like in the 20th century before the invention of roof prism p-coatings."

Lois: "Oh, I guess back when humans had five fingers instead of four they could grip those big things."

Clark: "Yes, Lois, and the porros only cost hundreds of universal digi-credits (UDC) back then, not like today's 9,000 UDC Übervids used by ornithologists, eco-evologists, and Canadian border police."

Lois: "I guess those were the golden years of optics."

Clark: "They certainly were Lois, they certainly were."

Ciao!
 
G'dday mate ;)
(I know, it's Australian, but I always wanted to write it.)

Loved reading your post, especially the final part. Good one about the universal currency. :t:

I still hope against hope for a porro revival, but I think the roof market now is so strong and diversified that scenario is unfortunately unlikely.

When this generation has passed (the Boomers), high quality porros will likely go the way of the dinosaur. Porros are already in the death throws of the K-T Boundary Event.

I am still hoping with all that retro-movement going on around us that the porro's will gain some terrain again in the nearby future. I forgot which brand revived its all time classic camera again. That's a typical example of good things can actually come back, but only now it's a digital camera not the real analogue one. I have to look up that one, because it's hugely attractive. May be it is a Nikon camera :)

Retro rocks, even when I have been part of it (70s/80s). But then again, may be that's why it rocks.

One category a porro will always win, I think, that's the 3D-view. Right?


Howdy!

[EDIT] I found the brand: it's Leica with their M9 (see http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m9/) and their X1 (see http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/compact_cameras/x1/).
 
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Pileatus - Of course the SE 8x32 is not waterproof. Am curious, do you bird "in serious rain?" If you do what is it like with water smeared lens? Most birders I know don't bird in the rain, much less serious rain. I just returned from Yellowstone Lake in Wyoming where there was serious precipitation taking place. Even with my Zeiss FLs, there was nothing to see out there in the rain. I guess I'm a fair weather birder. John
Yes, I've been caught in more than one rain shower and my binocular (Ultravid) has been drenched on more than one occasion.

Waterproof generally includes 'fogproof' due to proper sealing. Ever look through a fogged binocular...caused by a small intrusion of water?

There is no anti-porro conspiracy. In fact, many of the bins I see in the field are inexpensive porros that just get the job done at reasonable cost to the owner. However, the majority of serious birders I know use roof prism binoculars of varying quality. Occasionally I see an old Swift, Swarovski or Nikon porro in the hands of good birder.

The problem with owning and using a Nikon SE 8X32 porro for birding is that eventually you'll need something to use in lousy weather, at the shore or on the annual canoe trip. Those who stay at home comparing bins are safe; the rest of us will buy a watertight roof prism. It gets expensive because SE owners want a quality view that only the best roof prisms provide. Some of us spent more (considerably more) on the backup than we did on the SE. How crazy is that? I know this to be true because I've owned and used an SE for more than six years as my primary birding binocular.
 
Buongiorno Pepino,
In fact, the old Nikon Website was poorly designed. It's much better now, but I noticed that the SE is neither included under birding binoculars (where they have listed the EDG, Premier, Monarch X, 42mm ATB, and Monarch ATB) nor hunting binoculars (which lists the same models). It's sort of the odd man out. It's only listed in the general binoculars section.

http://www.nikonbirding.com/binoculars.html

http://www.nikonhunting.com/page/catalog/1

Brock,
The SE's are listed at the birding site but are easily missed. They are in the middle of the horizontal scrolling list of binoculars. So if you just click in the right portion of the horizontal scroll bar it takes you to the end of the listings bypassing the SEs. You have to use the slider or the arrow to scroll horizontally model by model to see the SE listing.
John
 
Brock,
The SE's are listed at the birding site but are easily missed. They are in the middle of the horizontal scrolling list of binoculars. So if you just click in the right portion of the horizontal scroll bar it takes you to the end of the listings bypassing the SEs. You have to use the slider or the arrow to scroll horizontally model by model to see the SE listing.
John

John,

Thanks. I see them now. I had expected there to be a drop down menu under "binoculars" like there is in the general binoculars section.

So the SEs ARE birding bins! Then again, scroll to the end of the bar, and you'll see the StabilEyes and Ocean Pro marine series listed in the birding section too, pelagic birding, I suppose.

It looks like they are trying to tout almost all their bins as being suitable for birding. What? No, 18x70 Astroluxe for shore birds? :)

Oops! I see the 10x and 18x Astroluxes and the 7x50 Prostar are no longer listed? More causalities of the PC Roof Prism Extinction Event?

Some online stores still have them in stock.

Brock
 
The big astronomy models are more likely victims of the low priced chinese ones being pushed by companies like Orion et al.
Bob
 
The big astronomy models are more likely victims of the low priced chinese ones being pushed by companies like Orion et al.
Bob

Bob,

You're right. With all the big bins coming in from China these days and the quality improving, it's hard for amateur astronomers to justify buying the Astroluxes or Prostar for twice or three times the cost.

Plus, amateur astronomers have a singular obsession when it comes to bins - edge sharpness.

Many of the characteristics birders fret about such as color saturation, color rendition, close focus, ergonomics, CA, WFs, and WP/FP are moot for amateur astronomers who's main targets are "faint fuzzies".

I was out last night rounding up the usual suspects in Sagittarius - Lagoon Nebula, Eagle Nebula, Swan Nebula, M21, M22, etc. - with my Swift Audubons, which cover a 8* of the sky and show very pinpoint stars.

However, with all the development around me now, the sky glow is worse than ever.

So birds it is!

Brock
 
The problem with owning and using a Nikon SE 8X32 porro for birding is that eventually you'll need something to use in lousy weather, at the shore or on the annual canoe trip. Those who stay at home comparing bins are safe; the rest of us will buy a watertight roof prism. It gets expensive because SE owners want a quality view that only the best roof prisms provide. Some of us spent more (considerably more) on the backup than we did on the SE. How crazy is that?

Pretty crazy, but then I'd be the first to admit that I'm crazy ... :D

Actually, with me it was the other way round. I've been using high-quality roofs in the field for something like thirty years now. Sure, I always liked porros and got a few over the years, some for nostalgic reasons, others because I could get them at a decent price. I sometimes use them for a day or two, especially my Zeiss West 8x50 B's, not because it's the best pair I've got, but simply because I really like it. But for serious birding it has been roofs all the way, for the very same reasons you gave.

Some years ago, when the latest bunch of the newest, greatest roofs came onto the market, I decided to call it a day. After looking at them in the field I decided yes, they were somewhat better than my Leica 8x32 BA and my Zeiss Victory II 10x40, but I simply wasn't prepared to spend so much money every five years or so just to have the best. And when I was offered a brand new pair of Nikon 10x42 SE's basically for what the dealer had paid for it, I got it instead, knowing full well I wouldn't really want to use it in difficult conditions. That's the pair I use now when I know the weather's going to be fine - but even then I often carry a backup, most often my Leica 8x32 or a Hensoldt Fero-D16 8x30 IF. Just in case the weather turns nasty as so often happens here in the autumn and winter.

So, in my case the SE's were a cheap alternative to getting one of the latest roofs. and guess what - so far I've seen very few roofs than can compare with the SE's. Mind you, one day I'll get a Zeiss FL.

Like I said, I'm pretty crazy.

Hermann
 
Some years ago, when the latest bunch of the newest, greatest roofs came onto the market, I decided to call it a day. After looking at them in the field I decided yes, they were somewhat better than my Leica 8x32 BA and my Zeiss Victory II 10x40, but I simply wasn't prepared to spend so much money every five years or so just to have the best. And when I was offered a brand new pair of Nikon 10x42 SE's basically for what the dealer had paid for it, I got it instead, knowing full well I wouldn't really want to use it in difficult conditions. That's the pair I use now when I know the weather's going to be fine - but even then I often carry a backup, most often my Leica 8x32 or a Hensoldt Fero-D16 8x30 IF. Just in case the weather turns nasty as so often happens here in the autumn and winter.

So, in my case the SE's were a cheap alternative to getting one of the latest roofs. and guess what - so far I've seen very few roofs than can compare with the SE's. Mind you, one day I'll get a Zeiss FL.

Like I said, I'm pretty crazy.

Hermann

Heheheh same like me the SE is the main bino now and my HG L is the backup after using it for a year, now I like the SE more than my HG L. Until I get the EDG, that's my combo at this moment :king:
 
Heheheh same like me the SE is the main bino now and my HG L is the backup after using it for a year, now I like the SE more than my HG L. Until I get the EDG, that's my combo at this moment :king:

Horokuru:

Good to hear from your liking the 8x32 SE, 22oz. of pure viewing pleasure. ;)
As a birding guide, who better could offer up an opinion.

I have had my EDG for a year now, and they are very good. I see Cabelas,
the large US retailer now shows the new style EDG available online, in 10x42,
and for open range hunters, that is the preferred size, and biggest seller.

Jerry
 
Horokuru:

Good to hear from your liking the 8x32 SE, 22oz. of pure viewing pleasure. ;)
As a birding guide, who better could offer up an opinion.

I have had my EDG for a year now, and they are very good. I see Cabelas,
the large US retailer now shows the new style EDG available online, in 10x42,
and for open range hunters, that is the preferred size, and biggest seller.

Jerry

Hehehe and I tried briefly at British Bird Fair the EDG 10x42 - Couldn't get proper view because of shake, 8x42 - Nice and I like it so much, lastly the 8x32 - Excellent bino similar like the view from my 8x32 SE !

Now I know what I need after selling my 8x32 HG L ;)
 
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Hi brocknroller,

I have had another look at www.nikon.com and you can download their catalogue for 2010/2011.

Guess what?! The EII's and the SE's are included. I think that should be good enough proof that they still have them in stock. May be they have not produced them for a while, but at least they expect to have enough in stock for the coming year(s).

Ciao!
 
The 2010/2011 catalogue has a cutaway view of one of the 42mm EDG binoculars, the first I've seen. It shows a new configuration for the objective lenses, but no change in the eyepiece design from the LX L (HG L).
 
Hi brocknroller,

I have had another look at www.nikon.com and you can download their catalogue for 2010/2011.

Guess what?! The EII's and the SE's are included. I think that should be good enough proof that they still have them in stock. May be they have not produced them for a while, but at least they expect to have enough in stock for the coming year(s).

Ciao!

Pepino,

Nikon must have old stock, because you see certain US stores getting SEs or EIIs now and then, but Nikon has been releasing them in "dribs and drabs," which is why every time a store announces it has SEs or EIIs in stock, there's a "feeding frenzy".

Apparently, in Japan, you can buy these models at a number of dealers at any give time, according to Tokyo Rick.

This makes no sense business-wise, because the US is much larger market than Japan.

I speculated earlier as to why Nikon might be holding back their stock of SEs and EIIs, but whatever the reason, it's not to increase their value since except for that "hiccup" last year by Amazon, when the price of the 8x32 SE shot to $725, the SE and EII have been selling for about the same price as they did 10 years ago.

In fact, the price of the 8x32 SE has actually come down. When they first came out, many stores were selling them for $599. That dropped to $499, and they've selling for around that price ever since.

So I'm miffed.

Ciao!

Brock

P.S. I thought you might enjoy this.

Pepino, the Italian Mouse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V57hP7Ipjw4

My grandparents were Italian, and they used to play this song, sung by Lou Monte, on holidays along with Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Vic Damone (my cousin) down in their basement where we feasted on a long buffet table of Italian cuisine, from antipasto to fried calamari to whole octopus to pasta and Braciole to Veal Parmigiana to Baccalà.

After we ate, everything would get put away, and then four hours later, it was all laid out again on the table for a second helping, followed by the passing around of feathers and a visit to the vomitorium. :)
 
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The 2010/2011 catalogue has a cutaway view of one of the 42mm EDG binoculars, the first I've seen. It shows a new configuration for the objective lenses, but no change in the eyepiece design from the LX L (HG L).

Henry,
Regarding the oculars on the 10 x 32 EDG and the 10 x 32 LX L: The external dimension (diameter) of those on the EDG is about 3mm wider than those on the LX L.

I thought, perhaps, these might have been redesigned but the FOV remains the same for both binoculars. The cut away view from the Nikon website (which is a pain in the butt to find!) shows 4 air spaced elements on the EDG.

Also the Objective Lenses on the EDG are set into the tubes much deeper than the ones on the LX L are. I wasn't able to measure the difference.

I'd appreciate any comments you have on this.

Thanks,
Bob
 
Bob,

I think the thick middle elements in the oculars are cemented doublets, something that is a bit clearer in an old Nikon catalogue I have. So, they're really 6 element eyepieces in a 1-2-2-1 arrangement. The eye relief has been increased on the 10x32 EDG so it would need a wider eye lens for the same AFOV.

Are you referring to the front elements of the 32mm objectives? I haven't looked at them closely.

Henry
 
Henry,
Thanks, eye relief is stated to be 1.3mm better (17.3mm to 16mm) in the EDG, so that would explain it.

Yes, I'm talking about the front elements of the objective lenses. I looked at them and it seemed to me that the EDG's were set deeper. I did a crude estimated measurement using a cut paper q-tip stem and it looks like they are set in about 3 or 4mm deeper. It looked deeper than that at first. I don't know if that is significant or not. It might help out with flare control which I have found to be excellent in this binocular.
Bob
 
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Hi Brock

Nikon must have old stock, because you see certain US stores getting SEs or EIIs now and then, but Nikon has been releasing them in "dribs and drabs," which is why every time a store announces it has SEs or EIIs in stock, there's a "feeding frenzy".

Apparently, in Japan, you can buy these models at a number of dealers at any give time, according to Tokyo Rick.

This makes no sense business-wise, because the US is much larger market than Japan.

My current Nikon dealer sells the EII's and SE's here without any delivery problems whatsoever. I don't know where he gets them, but they are for a reasonable price.



P.S.:

P.S. I thought you might enjoy this.

Pepino, the Italian Mouse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V57hP7Ipjw4

My grandparents were Italian, and they used to play this song, sung by Lou Monte, on holidays along with Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Vic Damone (my cousin) down in their basement where we feasted on a long buffet table of Italian cuisine, from antipasto to fried calamari to whole octopus to pasta and Braciole to Veal Parmigiana to Baccalà.

After we ate, everything would get put away, and then four hours later, it was all laid out again on the table for a second helping, followed by the passing around of feathers and a visit to the vomitorium. :)

I envy you, because I don't have Italian connections whatsoever, expect that I have lived there twice for 3-9 months. You must have had a beautiful childhood. Italian cuisine and all that surrounds it, is for me the best there is.

I chose the name Pepino from a old Japanese manga-like children animation series from the 70's, called Marco, that they played on TV, when I was living in Germany. His closest friend was a monkey, called Pepino. Have a look to this (Spanish?) intro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYOMfxPLcWU
 
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