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Forsskål's Kite (1 Viewer)

Björn Bergenholtz

Björn Bergenholtz

(former alias "Calalp")
Sweden
Additional info on Forsskål and ...

• the invalid Kite "[Falco] Forskåhlii" (a synonym of what?)

... is to be found in post 4, in thread Questions on synonyms ... in today's; Neocossyphus, Sitta, and Milvus, in the Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature Forum, here, see footnote!

Also includes an appeal of help with a Latin text!

If helping out, keep any response (regarding the Latin text and the identity of the bird) in that thread. Any opinion on the etymology and Mr Forsskål himself is, of course, better to post in this thread ;)

Grateful for all the help I can get!

Björn
 
That we are, Martin (if you´d read the foot-note, in my #4, in the Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature Forum thread, it would be quite obvious), however we´re not dealing with a Falcon (in today's taxonomy), but a Kite. ;)

More on Peter Forsskål in Nationalencyklopedien (The Swedish reference encyclopedia), here alt. Svenskt biografiskt lexikon (Dictionary of Swedish National Biography, published by Riksarkivet, the Swedish National Archive), here (both in Swedish) or elsewhere.

He's not that hard to find!

Björn

PS. Good second link (for anyone who hesitate on the identity of the bird) :t:
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Calalp said:
... If helping out, keep any response (regarding the Latin text and the identity of the bird) in that thread.
...
Grateful for all the help I can get!

Björn
Click to expand...
Criss-cross replies, hard-to-follow ... but, yes, that's my theory, thesis (or general idea) ... regardless if aegyptius is considered a subspecies or a species of its own.

/B

__
 
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Mark, the Arabic name fits Forsskål's own text (link in the Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature thread, post #1):
LOCUS: In Ægypto frequens hieme. Arab. Haddáj.
Click to expand...
In my Non-Latin head; meaning something like: In Egypt, frequent in winter. Arabic: Haddáj
 
I believe that to a large extent, wintering birds are migrans. Don't aegyptius become rather rare in Egypt in Winter? Is it known when he took his bird?

Niels
 
Niels, as Forsskål (1775) didn´t comment on any other frequency than hieme (winter) I guess his "Falco" was collected during that season, but that's only a guess.

I´ve ordered his "Diary" from the library, so we'll see, if any further details will surface ...

Stay tuned!
 
Now I have the "Diary", by Peter Forsskål, on my desk ... full title:

• Resa till Lycklige Arabien. Petrus Forsskåls Dagbok 1761-1763. Med anmärkningar av Svenska Linné-sällskapet, Uppsala 1950.
[meaning something like: A Travel to "Fertile Arabia" (Arabia felix). Petrus Forsskål's Diary 1761-1763. With commentaries by the Swedish Linnaeus Society, Uppsala 1950]

Note: This "Diary" is a reprint from a hand-written manuscript, a fair copy (not made by Forsskål himself), a pre-print MS (that, in its time, never found the way to the printing press), found in the Kiel University Library, Germany, by the Swedish Professor Henrik Schück (1855-1947), in preparation for his Paper Minnesteckning över Petter Forsskåhl (Svenska Akademiens Handlingar 1886 (1923), also published separately (in 1923) as "Från Linnés tid. Petter Forsskål).

I will read this "Diary", from cover to cover, to see if, and when, he mentioned "his" Kite (or any Kite at all), as soon as I find the time ...

Björn

PS. Also note that the knowledgeable men in those days also had trouble understanding how to write his name. In a Danish interpretation (from 1918) he´s called "Pehr Forsskål"!
 
Now I´ve read the "Diary" by Peter Forsskål, and no luck, I can only establish the fact that he didn´t mention "his" Kite in it. Nor any other Kite (the only Raptor mentioned was "Percnopterus", the Egyptian vulture). Very few (only a handful) of the birds listed in Descriptiones Animalium (a k a "Fauna Arabica") was/is mentioned in Forsskål's "Diary".

Back on square one.

The only thing maybe worth to notice is that Forsskål mentioned that "Vinter" (hieme, winter) in Egypt is November-January. And that the Introduction (by Arvid Uggla) tells us that Mr Niebuhr, who compiled the Descriptiones Animalium/"Fauna Arabica" (years after Forsskål's death) wasn´t a scholar in neither Biology nor Latin. He was an Astronomer and mathematician. Niebuhr's Latin has apparently been harshly criticized.

Regarding the identity of [Falco] Forskåhlii" itself I will continue in the Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature Forum (thread Questions on synonyms ... in today's; Neocossyphus, Sitta, and Milvus). In a slow pace, it will take some time, it´s a tricky case ...

But I do think we´re looking at a synonym of the Yellow-billed Kite Milvus (migrans) aegyptius.

We´ll see where we end up!

Björn

PS. Regarding the name of Mr Forsskål himself, see: here, a Paper (pp.6-29 + cover, even if all of it is written in Swedish), introducing new Professors to the University of Uppsala, Sweden (2009).
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Calalp said:
• Resa till Lycklige Arabien. Petrus Forsskåls Dagbok 1761-1763. Med anmärkningar av Svenska Linné-sällskapet, Uppsala 1950.
[meaning something like: A Travel to "Fertile Arabia" (Arabia felix). Petrus Forsskål's Diary 1761-1763. With commentaries by the Swedish Linnaeus Society, Uppsala 1950]
Click to expand...
In what seasons did he visit Egypt? (Arabia Felix is in principle the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula; Egypt is not part of it.)


Calalp said:
PS. Regarding the name of Mr Forsskål himself, see: here, a Paper (pp.6-29 + cover, even if all of it is written in Swedish), introducing new Professors to the University of Uppsala, Sweden (2009).
Click to expand...
But the spelling seems to have been rather unstable, even in his time, as his own brother Johan Christian wrote his name Forsskåhl: see his signature in a letter to Linnaeus [here].
I also note that Peter, e.g. [here] or [here], often signed "Petr. Forsskål" even when writing in Swedish or German, suggesting he used the Latin version of his given name (Petrus) rather than the Swedish one.
 
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From the "Diary": 27 September 1761: "... satte jag fot första gång på Egyptisk botn" (... did I, for the first time, set foot on Egyptian ground". And more than a full year later: "Den 9 Octb. [1762] eftermiddagen gingo vi till segel ..." (We sat sail on 9th of October, afternoon, ...), set for Djidda (today's Jeddah, Western Saudi Arabia) ... and onwards to Arabia Felix (Yemen), where his life ended the following year.

And; sure, Laurent, the spelling of his name was more than unstable (about a dozen different versions are known!), even his father (also Johan) wrote his name as Forsskåhl ... but no use of any h seems to be known from the hand of Peter Forsskål himself.

/B
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More info on Peter Forsskål, in English; here, here and here (even if often written Forsskal, due to the English lack of the letter å).

Also here or here ... alt. onwards, elsewhere, just about everyone (nowaday's) calls him Peter instead of the Latin Petrus.

Björn
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Quick return to Forsskål's Kite ...

In my mind (for reasons posted in thread Questions on synonyms ... in today's; Neocossyphus, Sitta, and Milvus, here), none of the various names for this Kite was directly, explicitly, exclusively aimed at the nominate subspecies of Black Kite Milvus migrans migrans (as indicated by today's Key).

Thereby, in my MS it will be:

• the invalid Kite "[Falco] Forskåhlii" GMELIN 1788 a k a [Falco] "Forskalii" LATHAM 1790, as well as "Milvus Forskali" L. BREHM 1849 (1851) and as ditto by A.E. BREHM 1882 (all subsequent incorrect spellings of Gmelin's first name) = syn. Milvus (migrans) aegyptius GMELIN 1788
= Peter Forsskål (1732-1763), fairly well-known Swedish (alt. Finnish-Swedish) naturalist, Linnaean disciple, traveller, etc., etc. ...

In older texts a k a Pehr (in Danish), Petter (in Finnish), Pierre (in French) alt. Petrus (in Latin) [like in today's HBW Alive Key ;)].

The surname of Forsskål has also been written either; Forsskåhl, Forskåhl, Forsskål, Forskål, Forskal, Forsskaal ... and so on, + its various Latinized versions; Forskaolii, Forsskaolii or Forskaohlii.

It´s quite clear that there were no spelling rules, nor any consensus on how to write things, in those days.

Björn
 
Mike, if you'd read further on you'd seen:
• the invalid Kite "[Falco] Forskåhlii" GMELIN 1788 ... [...] ... = syn. Milvus (migrans) aegyptius GMELIN 1788
Click to expand...

"Invalid" as in (as I´ve written it hundreds of times); a no longer valid scientific name, i.e. today (in this case) considered a synonym. ;)

What would make a synonym, or an unidentifiable name, valid (in today's taxonomy)?

Björn
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From the Glossary (under 'name'):
invalid name
An available name which either (1) is objectively invalid (i.e. it is a junior homonym or a junior objective synonym of a potentially valid name, or must be rejected under the provisions of the Code, or has been suppressed by the Commission), or (2) is subjectively invalid (because it is considered subjectively to be a junior synonym or to be inapplicable to a particular taxonomic taxon).
Click to expand...
 
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