The Binocular Journal (1 Viewer)

I was worried about blackouts with them because I had them bad with the Monarch 8x30 and they are a similar sized package. I don't really know enough to know what causes blackouts so I might have been paranoid for nought but that's how ignorance works. Anyway they work and I'm happy because they are really a beautiful binocular and I got a really great deal on this demo pair. Looked new to me. Between them and the miracle deal on the EL I put $1200 back in my pocket.

black crow said:

Between them and the miracle deal on the EL I put $1200 back in my pocket.

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Binocular paradise! You buy binoculars, and money flows into your pockets... ;-)

I've been enjoying hearing about all the great views and experiences you've been having with your new binoculars and the birds. I gotta see me some Orioles this weekend. I'm taking a dawn chorus class on Sunday morning. Meet up at 5:30. Might see some owls.

I'm with Chuck on the Ultravid HD+ 8x32. Its a great size binocular that I wish I could use, but no way with my glasses on. 7x42 yes. Everything else, forget it.

-Bill

Yeah I think it's a shame it has such a short eye relief. One day, like many of my porros, I may not be able to use them. So far so good though. I feed my eyes very well these days and my vision seems a little sharper but maybe it's just better optics.

I was out hiking this morning with the Leica 10x and I didn't see a bird in almost two hours. Then just before I got back there was a tiny hummingbird sitting atop a very tall snag. Due to the steepness of the trail he was just above eye level and maybe 50 yards away. I was amazed at the color and detail I could see at that distance and the image was very steady so I guess I'm able to hold very still with 10x. When I start out in the mornings the views are shaky and then within ten minutes or so I get very solid. That was my one concern about spending a lot on a good 10x but it seems all is well and I'll be using them often.

BTW if the person who turned me on to the demo deal on this Leica is reading this could you PM me. I accidentally deleted all my PMs without checking to see if I wanted to keep any. I've talked to so many people in PM lately that I can't remember who you are. You asked that I give you a report and more importantly I really want to thank you personally for these. I'd have never likely bought Leica without you hitting me up with that PM at just the right moment of weakness. I didn't even think about it. I just ordered it. I guess I knew if I thought about it I wouldn't.

Now I'm off to North Mountain Park for some proper birding with the ELs.

black crow said:

Yeah I think it's a shame it has such a short eye relief. One day, like many of my porros, I may not be able to use them. So far so good though. I feed my eyes very well these days and my vision seems a little sharper but maybe it's just better optics.

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Smoke and mirrors?! ; ) But yes, good nutrition is better than not, but better optics never hurt anyone, except in the pocket! I do imagine that nutrition, along with protection (when needed from the sun), and better binos for you will carry you farther along the way than most. Just be careful of your eyes and skin even in daily sunlight-it can carry a toll.

black crow said:

I was out hiking this morning with the Leica 10x and I didn't see a bird in almost two hours. Then just before I got back there was a tiny hummingbird sitting atop a very tall snag. Due to the steepness of the trail he was just above eye level and maybe 50 yards away. I was amazed at the color and detail I could see at that distance and the image was very steady so I guess I'm able to hold very still with 10x. When I start out in the mornings the views are shaky and then within ten minutes or so I get very solid. That was my one concern about spending a lot on a good 10x but it seems all is well and I'll be using them often.

BTW if the person who turned me on to the demo deal on this Leica is reading this could you PM me. I accidentally deleted all my PMs without checking to see if I wanted to keep any. I've talked to so many people in PM lately that I can't remember who you are. You asked that I give you a report and more importantly I really want to thank you personally for these. I'd have never likely bought Leica without you hitting me up with that PM at just the right moment of weakness. I didn't even think about it. I just ordered it. I guess I knew if I thought about it I wouldn't.

Now I'm off to North Mountain Park for some proper birding with the ELs.

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That sounds like another wonderful and fulfilling view you've had recenlty, BC! Good for you and your diligence in finding what is right for you. So, could someone now purchase your EII's at a good discount?

No, Sorry, I love them and will still use them. I like taking out different optics as long as they are all good, and the EIIs are easily good enough to compete with alpha bins. You know this to be true.

Well no, I really don't know alphas at all, but I know what I like. Glad to hear you aren't dumping your EII's though. You know alphas now, but it sounds like the EII's are dinosaurs in comparison because of their darkness in comparison to your new ones from what you have said. You see what you see, and I'm not doubting that. But unless you can say the alphas will give you something much more than just brightness-like more definition in backlighting, or in shadows, or just more definition, then I wonder how much is gained.

You are the only judge for yourself, ultimately, and it doesn't always hold for others, in general. That I think we can all agree on at least!

The EIIs are very fine binoculars. They are darker and way darker than the Swarovski's. That's not too much of an issue on a bright day. The EIIs are tack sharp but not to the edges like the Swaros and even the Leica and that's what I'm paying a lot to get. Also worlds better focusers IMO for birding. Fast and smooth. As has been said here many times here you pay a lot to get a few percent of improvement over any really good $2-500 binocular. I've learned to notice and appreciate that few percent and I'm one of the lucky ones who can indulge myself in paying what it costs to own it.

Don't you own a Zeiss SF? Maybe I've got you mixed up with someone else. Anyway IMO the EII is one of the alphas. Just not the best ones. Not even of the porros from what I've read here. But they live way above their price point IMO and have alpha sharpness dead center and have qualities that no other alpha to my knowledge has such as the amazingly expansive FOV in both the 8x and 10x. I wouldn't feel very sad at all if I ended up only owning the EII. They are a fabulous binocular and you do know that even if you don't own a Zeiss or Swarovski.

No SF here, but I have an older Zeiss FL 7x42, and that is as close as I will get to an alpha, or at least as it was in it's time. Also now I have a Meopta B1 7x42, and 10x32 B1 from Cabelas. They are my top glass, other than the Tract Toric 10x42 first gen. Apart from the archaic Porro EII's that please me too. In the same breath, let me say that I also am very happy with the Vanguard ED 10x42's that are outdated but offer a great view too, and the Bushnell Legend M's that also impress for far less investment than most others besides.

I have no doubt that Zeiss SF's are fantastic, as many will probably agree. I hope they are one of your stars in your binocular stable, and continue to be an inspiration to you. Have a blast, BC and enjoy! You have come a long way and deserve to be happy with your lovely views there. The binoculars have met their match in environment that is so suited to them, that they should be happy to serve by you! I think they would be very bored by me!

No I don't own the Zeiss SFs.

Hey you've got some nice binoculars there. The difference between the Tract 10x and the Zeiss SF is not that much but it's definitely there because I've compared them. I've been happy with almost every binocular I've ever owned. Now I'm happy with these. It's all the same in the end. How much can you or are you willing to pay to get something that just gets a nudge closer to that all around perfect binocular. For me back when I was playing very conservative with my cash what I considered an "alpha" was whatever was the best in it's class. In other words if you had $200 to spend then the very best binocular in that price range was the alpha. I think that's a good way to go. So for what I paid I think I have gotten near the top bang for buck within the competition. Not to mention that I didn't pay the asking price for either binocular. So I'm pretty happy with how this has all gone down. The EII going by the alpha criteria I just made up would be a for sure fat and sassy alpha and might be on top the very top of the pile. I'm pretty sure it's close.

bluespiderweb said:

Well no, I really don't know alphas at all, but I know what I like. Glad to hear you aren't dumping your EII's though. You know alphas now, but it sounds like the EII's are dinosaurs in comparison because of their darkness in comparison to your new ones from what you have said. You see what you see, and I'm not doubting that. But unless you can say the alphas will give you something much more than just brightness-like more definition in backlighting, or in shadows, or just more definition, then I wonder how much is gained.

You are the only judge for yourself, ultimately, and it doesn't always hold for others, in general. That I think we can all agree on at least!

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I own a pair of EII and SE as well as a few modern alphas. You’re not missing anything. I’m constantly amazed at the overall image quality of the EII, and the only advantages to the alphas to my eyes are waterproofing, fog proof, possibly durability. You certainly won’t see a $2,000 difference in brightness, contrast, resolution etc. in fact, the EII stacks up on par with the alphas. Speaking purely from my own experience.

black crow said:

No I don't own the Zeiss SFs.

Hey you've got some nice binoculars there. The difference between the Tract 10x and the Zeiss SF is not that much but it's definitely there because I've compared them. I've been happy with almost every binocular I've ever owned. Now I'm happy with these. It's all the same in the end. How much can you or are you willing to pay to get something that just gets a nudge closer to that all around perfect binocular. For me back when I was playing very conservative with my cash what I considered an "alpha" was whatever was the best in it's class. In other words if you had $200 to spend then the very best binocular in that price range was the alpha. I think that's a good way to go. So for what I paid I think I have gotten near the top bang for buck within the competition. Not to mention that I didn't pay the asking price for either binocular. So I'm pretty happy with how this has all gone down. The EII going by the alpha criteria I just made up would be a for sure fat and sassy alpha and might be on top the very top of the pile. I'm pretty sure it's close.

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Yeah, I'm sorry, I lost track. The SF's you were talking about earlier are your friend's, and now you have the Swaro EL 8x30 and Leica UV 10x32 now, that you are comparing the EII's to? Maybe they can be called bright, though I don't see the EII's being dark at all, though not the brightest available, for sure. Even my FL's of old are brighter, but that was their forte', I understand, due to the prisms they used, and maybe other factors, I don't know. Like the newest and best available as you have been witness to recently. That's great you've found them to improve your view, for sure. That's what it's all about after all, isn't it? They might not have the 3D view of the Porros, but maybe they make up for it in other ways.

I just consider alphas as the best and most costly available now, but maybe that is a shortsighted view, not considering how others measure up from past years that are still close in performance. I favor the latter, of course, for my pocket, but others have higher expectations and budgets, and that's fine with me! I only have myself to please, and I'm just happy to see something that looks amazing! With binoculars, that happens so much more than just taking photographs, which always seems to leave something lacking-probably the shorter focal length and resolution, often. So maybe I need a better camera?! I see a lot of beautiful bird shots on here and the web, and they can't all be with major slr or high digital telephotos that cost the world and more. Clearly, there is something I am missing! Or I can stop wondering about the best photos, and just look through my best bins and be happy with that. I take photos whenever I go out, but rarely of birds, that I have trouble locating even with bins!

Or, if I get closer, that might help with all! I don't see myself getting up in the wee hours, just to go birding, like I used to do when I was a milkman, or when I used to go fishing with my father and brother so long ago. Now I need what sleep I can get, and am often going to bed again when others are stirring for nature endeavors, it seems. I stirr a lot for nature, but not for birds or fishing, just nature calling me to get up during the night, over and over again! ; )

So be it-at least I have some great bins, and don't feel the need for better, myself. I just need to be able to get out more, if my health and motivation is willing.

But BC, I am happy to hear you are getting more joy from your nature walks recently with the new bins-that's great to hear, and I hope you continue to be motivated to discover more of your amazing country and wild inhabitants, and enjoy it all with your dogs too-it sounds like a good dog's life to me!

You deserve it, and to enjoy it, for all that it can bring you for peace and relaxation. Have at it mister! It's your time to shine!

Very kind of you to say that and I thank you and wish the same right back at cha!

What a day. I spent most of it out with binoculars. One benefit of that is eventually you see something special and and today was a good example. In one tree at our pond which seems to attract just about every kind of bird in our area, I saw Evening Grosbeaks, Bullock Oriole, and Cedar Waxwings all feeding in one tree. Those are three of the most beautiful birds in Oregon IMO and there was maybe 12 or more in that one tree. What a sight.

Later on another hike and this one is amazing. I usually don't see many birds on this trail but the dogs like it and it's pretty and dark with lots of sun shafts that make things look very primeval. I heard a bird song and looked for it in a very tall tree. I thought it might be warbler and finally after a lot of looking in the 10x Leica I saw a Western Tanager and then another one. I never got a fully clear view of either and I was really trying for it. I was leaning up against a very big pine trunk to steady myself and stayed there long and silent, intent on seeing those birds. All of a sudden I heard the biggest bumblebee I'd ever heard in my life right above my head. Then in a flash I knew what it was and without hardly moving looked up. Just two feet or so above my head a hummingbird was hovering looking down at me. As soon as our eyes met it split. I wait for this stuff and the truth is I usually don't wait too long because I'm out so much. And when I'm out that much I get quiet and just move slowly and let it all happen. One of my best birding days ever. Seeing a bird close up in a really great binocular is something that I'd describe as a "spiritual" experience. When you see the amazing detail in nature and it's in your view the rest of the world just disappears and it's all contained in one point of your gaze. I can't get over the detail I can see in these two binoculars. They've got me very excited. All I think about is my next hike.

This day being the weekend I try for the lesser used trails but I did stay on the edge of town. I watched a male and female California Quail who did not see me or the dogs, thus we had a long look which I don't usually get with Quail. I had the 10x Ultravid and watched the male take a dirt bath. What a beautiful bird they are.

I have to say that I'm having a love affair with this Leica. I really do like the Swaro EL but there is something of an emotional connection with this little Leica. It's ergonomically perfect IMO, yet it's almost like a compact. I can hold it rock steady most of the time and it's just a dream to look through. I can hardly feel or notice it on a harness and IMO it's just got a shade more depth of color than the EL. I don't think I'd ever part with either but I have to say I've become a Leica fan in a big way.

It is 2:22 in the AM here and I've just been out on my deck with the Nikon 8x30 EII stargazing. I had no idea how superior these are for stars. They blow my Oberwerk astro binoculars right away. Pinpoint stars and with 466 ft FOV the amount of stars you can grab is amazing. On Jupiter I could see three moons. The best part is how tiny they are in your hands. Not some big clunky pair of porros that are just too big for comfort. I'd heard it mentioned here before for stargazing but it did not click until tonight when I can't sleep. Too cool. I love the EII. I've been all about the new roofs I've just gotten but tonight I fell back into the arms of these amazing little porros. I will definitely do some daytime birding with these this week.

I feel amazingly fortunate to have so many wonderful optics to use. I don't say that lightly. I mean it with a full heart. I'm grateful. Outside of my dogs I find optics and what I see in them the most beautiful part of my life these days.

black crow said:

Outside of my dogs I find optics and what I see in them the most beautiful part of my life these days.

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Ouch! And we thought Bird Forum was on this list! :-O

Hope your lady-friend doesn't read your post........:eek!:

Glad you are enjoying optics and nature.

Lee

My lady friend is well aware of where my priorities lie. We are not a couple, just friends that came together over the love of some dogs. She feels the same about her dogs that I do. NO human could ever come before them. They are the superior species and are admired for qualities few humans possess IMO.

Bird forum is part of the optics experience and so is included without saying.:t:

Now, for a completetly different tac, I have been using my Nikon 10x42 Aculons again for spotting out the bedroom picture window, and what I can say is that they deliver big time, compared to some others I have, and immediately-no fooling around with focus, etc., they still give me what I want quickly, and without fuss-a very sharp view in the central portion where most viewing is done. There's not a lot more you can ask, unless you want to spend bigger money to get there. Porros are definitely the poor man's Alpha binocular, and I don't say that lightly, nor without good reason. The Aculons are not waterproof, but hey, if you're not going out in bad weather, then these are the ticket to a great view! Nikon is doing something very right there, but the eye relief is limited for eyeglass wearers, that is the only caveat that I can advise against them. But some may work even with eyeglasses, so given liberal return policies now, just try and see if they work for you, without a lot of bother. Most companies will give you 30 days to decide, or at least 30 days to return in some cases, if they don't suit you. Not a bad deal, either way. Just buy US warrantied products (from the US) (or UK if you are there), and look for positive feedback for your seller-never hurts, and only helps when buying online!

I really don't know why it is, just that it is, and the Aculons perform way well above their price range. If anyone is looking for a budget binocular that just gives much more than you can imagine, it is the Aculon Porros by Nikon. At least the 10x42's, for sure from my experience. I have a 7x35 tucked away, but haven't used it much, and a 16x50 too, but the same-not used much yet, though each is great, and a cracking bargain at the price offered on B&Hphoto.com at least when I bought then a few years back, but I decided to keep them both for their performance/price ratio. Though I imagine the price increases would be minor by now, and they would still offer great views for the money.

Sure you can spend more, and get more performance, but you need to ask yourself, how much more do I need, after I see these in action? Try them, and see for yourself. If you want more performance-more brightness, more sharpness across the field of view-or whatever (CA control?), then you will have to pay for it. And not all the time will you get your money's worth back for the money you spend in excess of the Aculons, or a similarly priced Porro that is slightly more giving in response. Yes, they are bit bulky, but I can deal with that-they are not that heavy either.

Check them out, if you haven't already, even if they seem below you-you might be surprised, though I do not know how much variance in quality control there is-but something you each need to address yourselves by trial and use, first of all. Nikon seems to have hit something good here-and I'm not just saying it to say something! Believe me, there is so much more to say comparing others, but if you are searching for a binocular that doesn't cost much and delivers much more, then you need to try these first, I think.

Unless you wear glasses, or have a weight limit, or....what excuse you can to not try these-so either try them in the store, or order a pair-they are certainly bargain offerings among binoculars, that many of you really can use and enjoy.