Thoughts on color bias (1 Viewer)

I have become interested in the topic of color rendering, color bias, color resolution, color balance (or whatever terms we use to describe the color differences seen through the binoculars of different manufacturers).

My guess is optical manufacturers produce the color rendering they think will help sell the most binoculars. Toward that end, it would be interesting to know which color rendering the majority of binocular users prefer.

Myself, I am drawn to the blue/grey bias. However, for some unfounded reason, I am of the opinion the majority of binocular users prefer the red/yellow bias, and consequently, the majority of binoculars that are produced transmit this red/yellow bias.

. . .

This week I went to the eye doctor to select a new pair of glasses. Inquiring about the cost of clip-on sunglasses ($160 for a polarized pair of clip-ons), I became interested in transition lenses--the type that darken when you step outside in bright sunlight and return to clear when you step inside). The sales person asked me if I wanted blue/gray or brown transitions. Puzzled, I ask her to describe the difference. She picked up samples of each and placed them in my hand.

My first object for the transitions was the young pretty face of the sales person. She looked very pale in the blue/gray transitions. However, her skin took on a warm, pleasant golden hue in the brown transitions. Obviously, brown transitions fare better if the observer is an old man and the object of observation is the pretty face of a young woman.

Next, I walked outside for additional tryouts. The blue sky and various cloud formations were brighter and more appealing through the blue/gray transitions. Particularly the blue sky--a pleasant, but unnatural, blue--the type of blue that leads to philosphical speculation about the world around us.

Then I looked at the trees with their limbs and autumn color leaves. The leaves brightened through the brown transitions, while the tree trunks and limbs appeared paramount through the blue/gray transitions. Through the brown transitions I noticed the COLOR of the leaves, while the FORM of the twisting tree limbs became the point of observation through the blue/gray transitions. Does color bias in the lenses we look through blind us to other non-color aspects of the objects we observe?

. . .

Finally, I struggled a bit in trying to decide upon which binocular-brand forum to post this thread. After some reflection, I selected Leica because an engineer once told me that Lecia was the only binocular to be free of color bias.

Was he right?

Bob,
This is a pretty deep topic. That, rather than nobody cares, probably explains the lack of responses. The subject sort of puts me into a speechless trance! But, having come to...

I see differences in the view presented by various binocular that are profound, yet which I am at a loss to attribute to differences in sharpness, depth of field, three-dimensionality, brightness, contrast, color bias, etc. It is the sum of many parts.

I have never (with the exception of a ruby-coated binocular which made everything look much too green, you shoulda seen grass in this thing) picked up a bino and remarked on the color bias. Many critical observers have, however.

Leica's color transmission curve has changed with coating advances over the years (see some of this thread http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=116599) and has never given a color temperature that is dead on neutral. Whether this is deliberate salesmanship, or simply the unattainability of perfection, I can't guess. To me, my Trinovid BA seems neutral. Not like yellow bananas, for example, sizzle electric and dominate the field, to the point where all you want to look at is bananas! Color looks more "remarkable" in my Swaro EL, which may be due to its higher transmission, or may be as sign of deliberate color finagling to get a Pretty view, which sells.

While I am not a racist, or sexist either I hope, blueish-grey girls, guys for that matter, are some of my least favorites, at least visually.
Ron

Ron--

Thank you for your reply and your suggestions.

When I posted the thread I did not have anything in mind other than the color rendition of binoculars and sunglasses. (Should I have used the term "hue differences" rather than "color bias"?)

Now, after reading your reply, I think I posted a topic with too many interpretations which may have been better not posted. I apologize if I have offended anyone.

Bob,
Aw, not at all, I think it's a good topic (and probably indicative of our demographic!). You might try the open bino forum to get the "Nikon sucks, Zeiss is best" type arguments.
Ron

Bob, that slant never occured to me, I just didn't feel qualified to answer as like Ron I'm not perceptive enough to notice any color bias among the top three or four brands of bins. I remember last year when I was looking for advice between buying a new pair of 8.5x42 ELs or a 8x42 Ultravid BR, Robert from Seattle who is a professional photographer was adamant about the the blue-green bias of Swaro versus Leica's neutral bias. Try as I might I couldn't see it. I work in an architect's office, I'm the Landscape Architect, but my partner is color blind so it's up to me to pick out colors and matching trim, I believe I'm pretty good at noticing fine color distinctions. I ended up with Leicas but for reasons other than color transmision, the Swaros were just fine to me.

I think I have read on some post here that the early Trinovid BA were biased toward yellow while the new Leicas are more color neutral. But I will leave it to others more expert than I to verify this or comment further.
John

BTW, like you I finally spluged on a pair of very good $260.00 sunglasses last year, I tried both the grey and brown and ended up with the brown as I liked the warming up of our grey blue winter landscape.

Many people have noted that Nikon has a slight reddish color bias. I've never noticed it. It appears neutral to me and the color rendition in them is excellent. My old Leitz 7 x 42 Trinovid has an obvious yellow color bias. Colors in my modern 7 x 42, 8 x 20 Trinovids and Minox BD 10 x 32 BR Asph are cooler but still excellent.
Bob

BobinKy said:

Then I looked at the trees with their limbs and autumn color leaves. The leaves brightened through the brown transitions, while the tree trunks and limbs appeared paramount through the blue/gray transitions. Through the brown transitions I noticed the COLOR of the leaves, while the FORM of the twisting tree limbs became the point of observation through the blue/gray transitions. Does color bias in the lenses we look through blind us to other non-color aspects of the objects we observe?

Click to expand...

Like ronh said, it is the sum of many parts. I'm no expert on binoculars, but could claim to be something of one on recognizing color variation in years past-deleted a bunch of mumbo-jumbo and technical crap that didn't apply...
Suffice it to say that due to the multiple coatings and the fact that, in my limited experience, the same binocular can seemingly accentuate colors that are diametrically opposed in the spectrum, we would have to rig up a way to do a spectrum analysis through each model with a coating or glass variation, and the quality or idionsyncrasies could vary from one sample to the next, so there would still be no definitive answer.
I have been contemplating starting a similar thread, except it was going to be worded to question how some binoculars accomodate different viewing situations more adeptly than others. Your example of color vs. form was the exact reason I became curious, because the recent season change brought about a change in my perception of some binoculars that I compare frequently, plus one that I recently returned(and perhaps gained a new appreciation for-unfortunately after it was already gone). The same bin that brilliantly contrasts brightly colored foliage suddenly loses its lustre when aimed at a more subdued target area-and while one bin emphasizes, and draws the eye to, lighter or brighter colors like leaves, another seems to bring out the trunks and branches. By the same token, arboreal fauna may be more accurately rendered by one or the other, depending on the circumstances.
I didn't really expect any in-depth discussion of the how and why, and have not even attempted to determine any bias among my own binoculars. My wonder was simply if perhaps other people had binoculars that they preferred in different seasons...for instance, maybe something like: late spring through early fall(brighter/more colorful) vs. different ones for late fall through early spring(dimmer/grayer).

edit--example: Pentax DCF ED, geared toward birdwatchers-great separation between colors, brighter hues jump out at you. Cabela's Euro/Meopta Meostar, geared toward hunters-excellent color rendition, but a little flatter looking. Viewing into heavy brush or woods, though, you can almost see through the vegetation, darker browns and greys stand out-spotted a whitetail doe at 200yds. ~40yds. deep in the brush, because I clearly saw her leg against a backdrop of dead leaves without making an effort to look, just panning around(dead leaves in shaded woods take on an almost kaleidoscope effect through the Pentax).

ceasar said:

Colors in my modern 7 x 42, 8 x 20 Trinovids and Minox BD 10 x 32 BR Asph are cooler but still excellent.
Bob

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I have not read much in comparison between Minox and Leica. It would be nice to read reviews of these two brands performing against each other.


--Bob
Kentucky

John M Robinson said:

I'm not perceptive enough to notice any color bias among the top three or four brands of bins. . . Robert from Seattle who is a professional photographer was adamant about the the blue-green bias of Swaro versus Leica's neutral bias. Try as I might I couldn't see it.

Click to expand...

As I become more interested in color rendering, I try to learn a bit on how the eye sees color through the cones in the retina. In my opinion, this could be influenced by the lens coatings, as well as the light and atmospheric conditions. Some days I see a color difference when comparing different binoculars. Other days, even looking at the same viewing situaition, I do not see the color difference.

I am also interested in FORM (more than COLOR) during some viewing situations, so the neutral rendering of the Leica appeals to me. Am I weird about this FORM thing--or do others have this preference from time to time?

--Bob
Kentucky

BobinKy said:

I have not read much in comparison between Minox and Leica. It would be nice to read reviews of these two brands performing against each other.
--Bob
Kentucky

Click to expand...

Such comaparisons have been done (see attachments; don't mind the text; you just have to look at the numbers and the symbols; low number (1,....) are good, high numbers (3,... etc.) are baaaad; (+) ist good; (-) is bad).
The picture is pretty clear and straightforward.
Crystal-clear, in fact.

Tom

OwenM said:

Suffice it to say that due to the multiple coatings and the fact that, in my limited experience, the same binocular can seemingly accentuate colors that are diametrically opposed in the spectrum,

Click to expand...

I wondered about this even as I was saying it, and spent some time both yesterday afternoon and this morning looking strictly at color rendition and separation through my 8x32 DCF ED.
What I discovered with this particular binocular was that though there was indeed strong contrast between opposing colors, it was not equal, but due to a yellow/green bias that brings out blues and reds more distinctly, the yellows and greens were rendered more neutrally-though not "washed out" as I expected, being accustomed to seeing more noticeable differences when comparing colors.
This helps explain why in some viewing situations I find the EDs ideal, but in others almost overwhelming, then preferring a "lesser" bin that is more neutral(or perhaps biased toward a different color set) for a more comfortable view.

Tom in Germany--

Thank you for posting links to published comparisons of Leica, Minox, and other European models. Although I cannot read German, the scores in the tables provided a sense of how the various models compare.

Bob in Kentucky, USA

More thoughts on color resolution--some interesting, some unrelated.

. . .

The terms "color transmission," "color fidelity," and "color neutral" are frequently used by manufacturers and dealers in their advertising copy for binoculars. Instead of giving us such empty phrases, perhaps binocular manufacturers can develop a quantified measurement of optical color for buyers interested in color transmission quality.

Steiner uses the term "Color Adjusted Transmission" (C.A.T.) in describing the difference between their Peregrine and Predator binocular models. http://steiner-binoculars.com/faq/faq.html

Henry Link talks about manipulation of color transmission and color wavelength measurement in his post on a Bird Forum thread back in March 31, 2006. http://www.birdforum.net/archive/index.php/t-54743.html

Authors Fujian Ding, Yud-Ren Chen, and Kuanglin Chao, visiting scientists here at the University of Kentucky, published their research in color-mixing binoculars to enhance food inspections in the poultry industry in the peer-reviewed journal "Applied Optics." http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=203650

Weatherworks gives us an interesting link for children that raises the question "What color is the sky?" and suggests an activity to measure sky color with a color wheel over several time periods and atmospheric conditions. The link also suggests the use of a color wheel to measure the differences in color perception among different people. http://www.weatherworks.com/monthly/activities/sky_window.html

And finally, Google search gives us a variety of color wheels from various websites. http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4TSHB_enUS279US279&q=color+wheel&um=1&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title



--Bob
Kentucky, USA