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Crossbill ID Gloucestershire (1 Viewer)

RichardBaatsen

Well-known member
I would like opinions on the attached Crossbill Photographed today by a non-birder.

Good birding in 2013
 

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Had the same problem in 11. But after conversations with John, the Avon Bird Recorder. We felt that without DNA or sound-files, it'd be difficult to disprove immense variability within the Common Xbill population. I guess photos don't do it for real ID. Or even descriptions of birds. I've had a few "massive-billed Xbills", which call like Parrots. There's much more to this than we know. And judging by the dearth of replies to this thread? No-one wants a gentle stroll across this particular minefield! ;)
http://philbaber-wildlifeart.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/late-august-forays.html
 
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Parrot Crossbill.

The lower bill is way heavier than the Scottish and Common crossbills we see up here all year, so I'm voting parrot.
 
The bill does look enormous but I wonder if that is partly to do with the angle of the shot.

Richard - are you able to outline where this bird was seen?
 
Just for the uninitiated like myself, the significance of larch is?

There is a commonly held belief that certain specie of crossbill prefer a certain type of cone to feed upon. Parkin & Knox (2010) in their work 'The Status of Birds in Britain & Ireland' (page 356) state that Common Crossbills feed on Larch and Spruce, where as Parrot Crossbills feed on Scots Pine.

However, if you got to this link, you will see that this very dedicated researcher has some interesting points to say about Crossbills!

http://pinemuncher.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/scottish-and-parrot-crossbill-catch-and.html
 
There is a commonly held belief that certain specie of crossbill prefer a certain type of cone to feed upon. Parkin & Knox (2010) in their work 'The Status of Birds in Britain & Ireland' (page 356) state that Common Crossbills feed on Larch and Spruce, where as Parrot Crossbills feed on Scots Pine.

However, if you got to this link, you will see that this very dedicated researcher has some interesting points to say about Crossbills!

http://pinemuncher.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/scottish-and-parrot-crossbill-catch-and.html

Whilst the feeding preferences may well be generally true of breeding birds within their 'normal' range, I doubt that they can be applied with any confidence to 'vagrants' found elsewhere. A fact underscored by the first known English record in 1251 by Matthew Paris who reported seeing them in feeding on apples in orchards near St Albans,
 
PS - I'd tend towards Parrot too! If DNA profiles and sound files truly are the order of the day then virtually all English records will have to be dumped!
 
A fact underscored by the first known English record in 1251 by Matthew Paris who reported seeing them in feeding on apples in orchards near St Albans,

I understand..that Mr Paris deferred to curvirostra rather than pytopsittacus on the grounds that BBRC would have probably automatically defaulted to the former...on the grounds of general commonality over the latter?

Anyway both species were almost certainly ''lumped'' then, due to the absence of optics, which would have been required to obtain a credible submission.:-O

Seriously though....Apples?
 
I understand..that Mr Paris deferred to curvirostra rather than pytopsittacus on the grounds that BBRC would have probably automatically defaulted to the former...on the grounds of general commonality over the latter?

Anyway both species were almost certainly ''lumped'' then, due to the absence of optics, which would have been required to obtain a credible submission.:-O

Seriously though....Apples?

Bravo! Given that at the time bats were 'lumped' with birds, I'm sure you're right that the species weren't split. I have a vague memory that there's a stained glass window in Paris' memory that includes a Crossbill.

The BWP gives a very long list of foods eaten so I'll quote the much shorter entry from the Handbook which, after conifer seeds, says "also apple-pips, hawthorn, ivy and rowan berries, seeds of thistles and grasses, buds, peas, aphids, caterpillars, small beetles, flies, etc." I'd hazard a guess that some of the more exotic fare relates to birds outside their normal range/habitat and suspect that insect foods may be frequently taken when raising young
 
Bravo! Given that at the time bats were 'lumped' with birds, I'm sure you're right that the species weren't split. I have a vague memory that there's a stained glass window in Paris' memory that includes a Crossbill.

The BWP gives a very long list of foods eaten so I'll quote the much shorter entry from the Handbook which, after conifer seeds, says "also apple-pips, hawthorn, ivy and rowan berries, seeds of thistles and grasses, buds, peas, aphids, caterpillars, small beetles, flies, etc." I'd hazard a guess that some of the more exotic fare relates to birds outside their normal range/habitat and suspect that insect foods may be frequently taken when raising young

John,
Haven't seen you since 198x - Calais YOC trip!!
Just thought I'd say hi, glad to see you're still active; and to let you know there is more about Matthew Paris in Simon Garfield's excellent book, "On the Map" which coincidentally I am reading. Paris was a bit of a polymath, being also notable for this cartography (Book of Additions and Chronica Majora). That stained glass window is in Canterbury Cathedral (southwest transept clerestory) I believe.
Small world. All the best and here's to the next 30 years!
Neil Morris
 
Whilst the feeding preferences may well be generally true of breeding birds within their 'normal' range, I doubt that they can be applied with any confidence to 'vagrants' found elsewhere. A fact underscored by the first known English record in 1251 by Matthew Paris who reported seeing them in feeding on apples in orchards near St Albans,

Presumably still deferred by BBRC and/or BOURC;)

I don't normally bother with these i.d. thingys but certainly strikes me as a 'Pretty Boy' it looks a monster.
 
I don't think so, it does look large-billed but the light is behind it, its head is at funny angle and probably not big enough bulge on the lower mandible, if anything the bill looks long. In a subsequent equally poor photo it's looks more standard. The lady that photographed it didn't even know they were Crossbills so she can't help further.
 
And as they weren't there the next day I'm guessing it will remain a possible. Maybe the Forest will host one this winter.
 
As the researcher referred to I can categorically confirm that I have had Parrot Crossbills feeding on Larch many times ! These birds were ID'd by call type initially (at Glen Tanar) but later after I had colour-ringed birds these were also observed feeding on Larch from late winter through to Summer (albeit sporadically). Cately also had Parrots feeding on Larch.

As to the specimen above, the bill looks rectangular, but given the angle the profile and proportions of the head and bill are somewhat biased - telephoto lenses have a habit of doing this. I wouldn't make a call on this one photo - were there any more, even rubbishy ones as one can get a better idea from different postures. Plumage looks wrong for Parrot too btw.

Lindsay
 
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