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Old Sunday 2nd January 2011, 16:48   #1676
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Attachment 301500

Attachment 301502Hi Folks, Happy New Year to everyone. First days Gulling of the year today produced a couple of interesting birds.The first bird obviously has Herring Gull type greater coverts and a predominantly pale bill.But it was giving the classic Casp-like "Albatross call and posture" at one stage and had very long legs and a hanging rear belly.Also is it a 3cy( just), but as it had a dark iris( I looked closely at this), so a 2cy?
The bird on the ice was at first thought to be an Argentatus Herring Gull, but could it be a dull legged YLG or hybrid? It had a thin band on P5,

cheers, Pete.

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Old Sunday 2nd January 2011, 19:37   #1677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristian Mihai View Post
Thank you for comments, Lou. I would say you're right about the P8...
Here are two pics taken in Bucharest, on January 1st.
hi cristian,

two nice 3cy (second cycle):
1. looks like a cach with that large p10 tongue, pinkish base to bill and dark eye but bill shape is odd - quite high, short and blunt tipped from this angle.
2. classic 2nd (cycle) basic -> alternate mich, considering early developement of yellow on bill, which is an "alternate" = breeding time feature. herastrau or dambovita? just for the file name as i load them down for the collection as usual
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Old Sunday 2nd January 2011, 19:51   #1678
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Originally Posted by snowcap View Post
Attachment 301500

Attachment 301502Hi Folks, Happy New Year to everyone. First days Gulling of the year today produced a couple of interesting birds.The first bird obviously has Herring Gull type greater coverts and a predominantly pale bill.But it was giving the classic Casp-like "Albatross call and posture" at one stage and had very long legs and a hanging rear belly.Also is it a 3cy( just), but as it had a dark iris( I looked closely at this), so a 2cy?
The bird on the ice was at first thought to be an Argentatus Herring Gull, but could it be a dull legged YLG or hybrid? It had a thin band on P5,

cheers, Pete.
happy new year, pete,

1. is a 3cy (2nd winter/cycle) herring gull. probably a pure one, with a malcoloured bill and a dark iris. those crisp GC ain't good for caspian as you said, neither is the tertial pattern with many undulations at their edge, usually almost black centered in typical cach at this age. lesser and median coverts also better for HG and usually scattered with new grey ones in caspian (especially medians).

2. hard to tell. looks very dark mantled. small apical spots (primary tips) and dark mark on bill suggest a subadult: 4cy or 5cy, if an argentatus herring gull rather a 5cy (4th cycle). smudge around eye reminds of michahellis but most YLG indeed have yellow legs at this age (few exceptions); there is a small p10 mirror, also good for mich together with the often cited angular big head (which i don't give too much emphasis at). so it's either a hybrid (argentatus x fuscus?), argentatus x michahellis? or a weird 4-5cy michahellis or a weird 5cy argentatus. nice choosing...i really wouldn't like to make a 100% ID...let's post it on gull-research-talk?

cheers
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Old Sunday 2nd January 2011, 20:42   #1679
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Hi Lou,

Pics are taken on Colentina river in the area called Straulesti (on the way to Mogosoaia).
BTW, I visited this area for the first time this winter on December 30th (together with Chris Gibbins), but we didn't manage to take pics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou salomon View Post
hi cristian,

two nice 3cy (second cycle):
1. looks like a cach with that large p10 tongue, pinkish base to bill and dark eye but bill shape is odd - quite high, short and blunt tipped from this angle.
2. classic 2nd (cycle) basic -> alternate mich, considering early developement of yellow on bill, which is an "alternate" = breeding time feature. herastrau or dambovita? just for the file name as i load them down for the collection as usual

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Old Sunday 2nd January 2011, 20:43   #1680
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Thanks Lou for your excellent comments as ever.
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Old Sunday 2nd January 2011, 21:29   #1681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristian Mihai View Post
Hi Lou,

Pics are taken on Colentina river in the area called Straulesti (on the way to Mogosoaia).
BTW, I visited this area for the first time this winter on December 30th (together with Chris Gibbins), but we didn't manage to take pics.
whished i had been with you...

today just a young tatty argentatus flying along the river in stuttgart (which is in southwestern germany, so hg isn't common). couldn't take pics.
what do you say about chris' new pics on his blog - some adult michs worth to be looked closer at.
http://chrisgibbins-gullsbirds.blogs...chahellis.html
http://chrisgibbins-gullsbirds.blogs...t-eastern.html
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Old Sunday 2nd January 2011, 23:51   #1682
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Yes, I had seen them - for me nothing new. For someone from the Western part of the Europe, some strange birds...


A female type 2cy michahellis - Herastrau, January 2nd.
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Old Monday 3rd January 2011, 20:49   #1683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou salomon View Post
happy new year, pete,

1. is a 3cy (2nd winter/cycle) herring gull. probably a pure one, with a malcoloured bill and a dark iris. those crisp GC ain't good for caspian as you said, neither is the tertial pattern with many undulations at their edge, usually almost black centered in typical cach at this age. lesser and median coverts also better for HG and usually scattered with new grey ones in caspian (especially medians).

2. hard to tell. looks very dark mantled. small apical spots (primary tips) and dark mark on bill suggest a subadult: 4cy or 5cy, if an argentatus herring gull rather a 5cy (4th cycle). smudge around eye reminds of michahellis but most YLG indeed have yellow legs at this age (few exceptions); there is a small p10 mirror, also good for mich together with the often cited angular big head (which i don't give too much emphasis at). so it's either a hybrid (argentatus x fuscus?), argentatus x michahellis? or a weird 4-5cy michahellis or a weird 5cy argentatus. nice choosing...i really wouldn't like to make a 100% ID...let's post it on gull-research-talk?

cheers
Hi - Could well be some Caspian in both birds although I suppose it's more likely that they are both within the range of 'Herring Gull variation'. 2nd bird is dark though and high chested.

Cheers,

Andy.
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Old Monday 3rd January 2011, 20:55   #1684
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Hi,

I digiscoped this Caspian Gull this afternoon and it had a colour ring on its leg which read 'PAPB'. I googled this and found that it had been seen in Holland in 2009:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]

It also states that it was rung in Poland. Would you guys know how I can confirm this?

Cheers,

Andy.
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Old Monday 3rd January 2011, 21:08   #1685
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Hi Andy, I think the guy to contact is Grzegorz Neubauer in Gdansk, his email is [email protected] ,
cheers, Pete.
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Old Monday 3rd January 2011, 21:10   #1686
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Interesting bird. The underwing looks pretty dark in the pic taken in Holland.
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Old Monday 3rd January 2011, 21:45   #1687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristian Mihai View Post
Interesting bird. The underwing looks pretty dark in the pic taken in Holland.
Thanks Pete - I've sent him an email.

Cristian - in the field, I could see this bird had a very pale underwing. Also note the mirror on the underside of P10. Be interesting to see what it was rung as but to my eyes, it's a Caspian.

I'll let you guys know what responses I get.

Cheers,

Andy.
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Old Tuesday 4th January 2011, 08:31   #1688
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Hi all,

Maarten Van Kleinwee has now updated the 'flickr' page above with the ringing info. This bird was rung as a pullus in a Caspian Gull colony in Poland in May 2009. Also, thanks for the email Maarten, much appreciated.

Regards,

Andy Lawson.
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Old Tuesday 4th January 2011, 12:01   #1689
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"Cristian - in the field, I could see this bird had a very pale underwing. Also note the mirror on the underside of P10. Be interesting to see what it was rung as but to my eyes, it's a Caspian."

I had no doubt that is a Caspian, Andy. But I just remarked that it had a pretty dark underwing when it was younger.
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Old Tuesday 4th January 2011, 12:05   #1690
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ID and age all, please!
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Old Tuesday 4th January 2011, 13:38   #1691
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"Cristian - in the field, I could see this bird had a very pale underwing. Also note the mirror on the underside of P10. Be interesting to see what it was rung as but to my eyes, it's a Caspian."

I had no doubt that is a Caspian, Andy. But I just remarked that it had a pretty dark underwing when it was younger.
Hi Cristian,

No worries. I think the ID as a 1st winter could be questionned as the bird is quite mottled on the underparts, the bill is fairly short and the head is quite big. Also, the inner primaries are very grey indeed and perhaps closer to Herring?

My biggest concern was that the bird could have mixed parentage but it appears that it was rung in a pure Caspian colony.

But had this bird been seen further north or west of London in its 1st winter plumage (without a ring), then would it have been 'extreme' or 'classic' enough for acceptance?

Cheers,

Andy.

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Old Tuesday 4th January 2011, 20:33   #1692
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Here's 2 more shots I took yesterday of Andy's Caspian Gull
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Old Tuesday 4th January 2011, 20:36   #1693
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Here's 2 more shots I took yesterday of Andy's Caspian Gull
Thanks mate. Actually looks much better in your shots. Very nice images.

Cheers,

Andy.
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Old Thursday 6th January 2011, 16:55   #1694
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January 4th. 2cy Caspian Gull?
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Old Thursday 6th January 2011, 17:00   #1695
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yes, no doubt with this. nice "bathing" pics.
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Old Friday 7th January 2011, 10:34   #1696
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yes, no doubt with this. nice "bathing" pics.
Thank you for confirmation, Lou.
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Old Friday 7th January 2011, 15:53   #1697
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Lots of large Gulls were present on my local patch in NW Britain today in very snowy conditions.I picked up what I thought was an adult Iceland Gull in flight( gleaming white underside to primaries etc.)It landed on the lake at some distance from me and I was astonished to see it had charcoal toned markings in the primaries.It appeared to have a dark iris, but on closer inspection it was light brown coloured.It had an all white tip to p10 which joined the pale inner web and p9 had a large white subterminal mirror which also joined the pale inner web.There was a thin dark subterminal band on p5.The underside of the folded primaries were clean white.The legs and feet were an impressive raspberry pink.It was very dark around the eye and the nape and neck sides had a golden brown wash of streaks.
It was with Herring Gulls, both Argentatus and Argenteus and was clearly paler mantled than all the Argentatus, also longer winged, smaller headed etcAttachment 302293.I`ve seen quite a few Kumlien`s Gulls before and this bird was very reminiscent of those, but are the markings in the primaries too dark? Hybrid?
Any comments welcome, apologies for the rather poor pic(poor light, snow etc),

cheers, Pete.

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Old Friday 7th January 2011, 16:33   #1698
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Hi Pete,

I would say it is an odd Herring Gull, but I would wait for more opinions.
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Old Sunday 9th January 2011, 21:18   #1699
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hi pete,

personally i don't have experience with such birds but head alone leaves a massive herring gull impression. the thing is - i thought northern argentatus with "thayeri-pattern", like e.g. this one: http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/hg/ad_02.php where darker mantled than the average argenteus.
at least fom this view bill appears much too massive for any iceland gully type, black distribution seems in the range of thayers but again bill and head looks too large for me. so i'd speculate about some hybrid origin, mabe with glaucous? but both hyperboreus and argentatus have short primary projections - but your bird looks rel. long winged.
those apical spots are immense - or is it just the standard photo effect that enlarges white portions? sorry, can't ID it with certainty. but with a p5 mark i think herring gull at least got to be envolved.

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Old Monday 10th January 2011, 09:35   #1700
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Some pics taken in Tineretului - January 9th. All Yellow-legged Gulls. From the left to the right: 3cy; adult + 2cy; 2cy; same bird in the last two pics - 4/5cy?
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