[mwnold]

I have read a few user reviews of the Theron Wapiti's. They are always very positive. However, I have not been able to find any professional reviews. And I cannot find any history of one being sold used. Are these really popular binos or are they just internet legends?

From many of the reviews they would seem to be the closet in performance to the alphas without the alpha cost.

Thanks in advance for the input.

[trekrem]

I am wondering the same thing, and have ordered an 8x42... We'll see!

[mwnold]

Let us know how you like them. I might pull the trigger on a pair soon. Anyone else out there that are proud Theron owners than can attest to their abilities?

[trekrem]

Will do, they are due to arrive on Feb 2nd... I'll try to get out an initial impression that day/night and follow that up after a week or two of use.

I am also considering contacting Allbinos to see if they would be interested in reviewing my pair (depending on whether I keep them and whether I can part with them for a while!).

[FrankD]

There were/are several versions of the Theron Wapiti....I think you are referring to the APO branded version based on subsequent posts. There was also an HQ and now an LT Wapiti.

Theron Optics is a relatively small company and doesn't have the marketing budget of a Nikon, Bushnell or Alpen. It has been my experience that if you don't have a big budget then you don't get recognized by any of the "professional reviewers".

[trekrem]

Just to confirm, I am speaking of the Theron Wapiti APO-ED version. (Thanks for pointing that out FrankD).

Also, mwnold, fyi, when I ordered mine from predator optics, the quantity available was 0 for the 8x42, I placed the order anyway (on the 27th of January) and they shipped out today (the 28th). Although the quantity still shows 0.

There seems to be plenty of 10x42 available, but I personally prefer the brighter, wider more stable view of 8x. (Too bad they don't make a 7x!)

[mwnold]

Thanks trekrem. Sounds like you will have it in your hands soon. Just to clarify I am also interested in the APO-ED version. Looking for a good Ohio deer hunting bino. I am considering the Theron or a used alpha.

[trekrem]

Ok, they arrived a short while ago, and I will most likely be returning them. I had high hopes judging by the reviews I have read, but I ended up disappointed.

The following are a few of the issues I had right away:

Balance... They are VERY front heavy. I don't mind weight at all, my primary binocular is a Pentax DCF ED 8x43 which weighs 715g. But at 780g with the majority of that at the objective end makes for tiring viewing that I noticed within only a few seconds. I could not see using these all day.

Focuser... Very spongy/rubbery feeling (not the knob itself, the actual mechanism). No play, but quite a bit of backlash. It is also a little noisy.

The objective cap tethers... They are too thick (for me), unless you have far apart IPD, the caps will not simply fall down out of the way, the tethers get hung up in between the barrels.

Eye strain... Within a few minutes of testing, I began to have eye strain, I believe these may be slightly out of collimation.

I could not get much viewing in (it is dark here now) but I will do some more testing over the weekend for the benefit of others interested in this binocular.

The eye relief is good, the field is flat, and the extra FOV for this class is nice. I do like the objective caps (just not the tethers!) and the eyepiece cap/rain guard works well (although may be tough to remove in a hurry).

More to follow in the next few days.

[trekrem]

Hmm... What a difference a day makes... I will still be returning them, I can't deal with the balance, they are VERY, VERY front heavy! The focuser however is a lot better, I worked it in for a little while and it is much less spongy/rubbery feeling and the backlash is much less now. The focuser still feels a little cheap however, but is not as bad as I thought. I must have just been tired as the eye strain is not there anymore while using these, they are collimated perfectly.

Alright let's talk about CA... There is none. Absolutely none. I tried and tried and tried, but I could not find any CA at all. To clarify, my example of the Theron Wapiti APO-ED 8x42 do not have any CA in the overwhelming majority of the FOV. I could barely, barely detect some at the extreme edge... Barely!

Optical quality... There was/is a weird film on the oculars, I think it is some type of grease coming from the ocular ring. I cleaned it off, but if I clean too close to the edge, I can pull more out. Both the oculars and the objectives had minute particles on them, both needed to be cleaned. The prisms and internal lenses/flatteners have dust particles on them, these are definitely not made in any type of clean environment.

Coatings... They must have an anti-fog coating (on both the objectives and the oculars), and it works very well, they de-fog/un-fog very quickly!

There is also noticeable internal reflection. Both exit pupils are truncated, the right is slight, the left slightly more. They would have been better using slightly bigger prisms, as this would have put some of the weight toward the rear, balancing them a little better.

The FOV is very nice for an 8x42, even up the the edge it is very sharp, and any blurriness can be focused out. There is not much change in focus from the center to the edge.

I will try to do some star testing over this weekend. If anyone has any questions, make sure you ask me in the next few days as I will be sending them back on monday.

[mwnold]

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like I will hold out for new Hawkes or Zen Rays.

[mooreorless]

Trekrem, Is this the model you are talking about?
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....8&d=1307637848

[trekrem]

Originally Posted by mooreorless

Trekrem, Is this the model you are talking about?
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....8&d=1307637848

Yes, it is.

[mooreorless]

I had use of one of these on loan and found it an very good binocular for the price. Handled the setting Sun very well and I have to agree about the CA control. Excellent resolution and contrast. I didn't have any issues with the focuser or notice the grease issue on the eyepieces. Sample variations and maybe QC issues after first coming out to get a "name" in good shape and then slip later on. Not the seller of these, the manufacturer. BTW didn't do any flashlight test of this sample.

[eitanaltman]

Originally Posted by trekrem

There seems to be plenty of 10x42 available, but I personally prefer the brighter, wider more stable view of 8x. (Too bad they don't make a 7x!)

if you want a high quality, affordable 7x look at the Zen ED3 7x43. The ED3's are really awesome for the price.

if you are more miserly and not as sensitive to flare and soft edges, the 7x36 ED2 is very affordable as a demo model from Zen-Ray.

[Nixterdemus]

"Eye strain... Within a few minutes of testing, I began to have eye strain, I believe these may be slightly out of collimation."

I've checked a lot of used bins lately. I check a knothole in a hickory tree 60-70 yards off w/objective face on glass pane door. I move my head closer & father away, after I've focused, to see if I can induce double vision.

If not I take them off the glass and stare at the hole w/eyepiece slightly out of my sockets. continuing to stare at the hole I bring the bins down. If I immediately see the hole I'm good, however if the hole takes the slightest moment to come into focus I continue.

Stepping out on the deck I focus on a 4'x6', evah so roughly, galvanized rectangle duct helping secure a corner of a field fence 150yds off. I repeat the same test. Being a larger target & farther away I suppose it'll usually come into focus easier.

If it's bad out of alignment my eyes will show the two images separated when I lift/drop the bins. Closer, but still out, will still require a slight pause to refocus. If it's close I'll immediately have the pic focused w/o feeling any length of pause.

I have an old SARD 7x50 that worked OK for it's age looking out in the woods for a minute. It wasn't until I looked at stars that I noticed once the "star moved" to the left side of the glass it separated into two w/one above the other. I marked w/lead pencil then loosened the left objective & moved it until I went too far, marked it, then backed up.

It's not the same as someone trained w/collimation machine, but the old glass doesn't have enough value to justify such & I don't use it much. It appears closer than what it was through my eyes.

Anywho, I don't know how the pros do it, yet my test shows me if the two images are too far apart for my eyes. I have a early 60's 7x35 Nikon that produces images clear as a bell in double vision. A sixteen year old relative came over was looking through some glass & I handed him those to peek through. I asked if he saw double, but his young didn't as they accommodated the two views and rendered one pic. I can force my eyes to do that, yet I'll see the double first every time. So. I told him to stare at the knothole and lower the glass asking him what he felt. "I feel my eyes cross." He felt them uncrossing coming back to normal position as do I. Those are way out, but they demonstrate some difference & similarity in young & old eyes.

Now you know as much as I do. Sorry to hear you didn't care for the bins. I had looked into buying the same, but I couldn't find a demo/deal in the 8X. I was intrigued by the field flattening element & curious as to how well that worked towards the edge.

[solium]

Theron in the UK as Avian?
http://www.avianoptics.co.uk/product...pen-bridge.php

[eitanaltman]

yes, those are the same as the Wapiti LT.

Avian also produces a scope (the ED82) that is identical with the Theron Mag82. Both are Nikon 82ED knock-offs.

[solium]

Originally Posted by eitanaltman

yes, those are the same as the Wapiti LT.

Avian also produces a scope (the ED82) that is identical with the Theron Mag82. Both are Nikon 82ED knock-offs.

And Helios? Helios Field Master 60DS
ED 15-45x60 spotting scope is identity with Theron ...:)

Also, they were probably similarly bino (not the same under parameters) with Theron Wapiti 8x32 LP:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HELIOS-RAPID.../dp/B00843G49Q

Avian is a new brand for Helios or...??

[Steve C]

Just because the Avian binocular looks like the Theron, or the Theron looks like the Avian, there are quite likely diffrerences in design specifications that are sufficient to make them functionally NOT the same binocular. Assuming two identical appearing binoculars are the same seems to be an often made assumption, it seems one often made when somebody finds a cheaper clone of something and thinks they will get a really extra good deal with the less expensive one. Maybe they are the same glass under different brands...then again maybe not.

[stereotruckdriver]

Good point Steve! Bryce...

[solium]

Originally Posted by Steve C

Just because the Avian binocular looks like the Theron, or the Theron looks like the Avian, there are quite likely diffrerences in design specifications that are sufficient to make them functionally NOT the same binocular. Assuming two identical appearing binoculars are the same seems to be an often made assumption, it seems one often made when somebody finds a cheaper clone of something and thinks they will get a really extra good deal with the less expensive one. Maybe they are the same glass under different brands...then again maybe not.

These are the same products just with a different logo:

Theron - SAKER ED 60MM SPOTTER:
http://theronoptics.com/SAKER_ED_60MM_SPOTTER_HKQ5.php

Helios - FIELDMASTER-ED60 DS 15-45x60 ED
http://www.sherwoods-photo.com/helio...spotter_fs.htm

But here:
Theron - http://theronoptics.com/MAG82_ED_82MM_SPOTTER.php

Avian - http://www.avianoptics.co.uk/product...-magnesium.php

Theron - http://theronoptics.com/WAPITI_LT_BINOCULARS.html

Avian - http://www.avianoptics.co.uk/product...pen-bridge.php

Helios is a UK company (http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com...binoculars.php), but Avian? I do not know ...
Radim

[Steve C]

Originally Posted by solium

These are the same products just with a different logo:

Theron - SAKER ED 60MM SPOTTER:
http://theronoptics.com/SAKER_ED_60MM_SPOTTER_HKQ5.php

Helios - FIELDMASTER-ED60 DS 15-45x60 ED
http://www.sherwoods-photo.com/helio...spotter_fs.htm

But here:
Theron - http://theronoptics.com/MAG82_ED_82MM_SPOTTER.php

Avian - http://www.avianoptics.co.uk/product...-magnesium.php

Theron - http://theronoptics.com/WAPITI_LT_BINOCULARS.html

Avian - http://www.avianoptics.co.uk/product...pen-bridge.php

Helios is a UK company (http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com...binoculars.php), but Avian? I do not know ...
Radim

Maybe you are right, maybe not. Just how do you know this? I'm curious, not trying to be argumentative. You can't look through them via links. I'll grant external similarity.

[typo]

Radim,

I think the point Steve is making is the models may look the same, indeed be assembled by the same factory, but each of the retailing companies is able to specify the types of glass, accuracy of the lenses, and several grades of coating amongst other things from these Chinese companies. People on the forum have sometimes spotted differences in seemingly similar products when they have compared them side by side. Other times found them optically identical. You just can't be sure.

David

[solium]

Yes, some products may have different parameters in detail, I agree ...
Radim