Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Is the best roof in the world better optically than the best porro?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 13 votes, 3.23 average.
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 13:08   #1
[email protected]
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,249
Is the best roof in the world better optically than the best porro?

I used to think porro's were better optically than roofs but after comparing the Swarovski 8x32 SV Swarovision to my Nikon 8x32 SE and Nikon 8x30 EII I think the SV is better optically than the SE or EII. What do all you porro lovers think? Have you ever compared them?
denco@comcast.n is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 13:22   #2
Holger Merlitz
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Xiamen
Posts: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I used to think porro's were better optically than roofs but after comparing the Swarovski 8x32 SV Swarovision to my Nikon 8x32 SE and Nikon 8x30 EII I think the SV is better optically than the SE or EII. What do all you porro lovers think? Have you ever compared them?
There is nothing to compare, because there exists no high end binocular with Porro prisms any more on the market.

Cheers,
Holger
Holger Merlitz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 13:29   #3
[email protected]
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Merlitz View Post
There is nothing to compare, because there exists no high end binocular with Porro prisms any more on the market.

Cheers,
Holger
The SE and the EII are as about as "High-End" as porro's get I agree but many think they are still better optically than the SV. I disagree. I think finally IMO the roofs have surpassed them with the 8x32 SV.
denco@comcast.n is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 13:47   #4
Holger Merlitz
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Xiamen
Posts: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The SE and the EII are as about as "High-End" as porro's get I agree but many think they are still better optically than the SV. I disagree. I think finally IMO the roofs have surpassed them with the 8x32 SV.
This is true, though it has nothing to do with the prism type. The SV has superior edge-sharpness, CA-control and transmission. If you would take a SE/EII and flatten its field, add ED-glasses and state of the art coatings, then you would arrive at the same (if not superior) optical performance, and perhaps 30% cheaper.

Cheers,
Holger
Holger Merlitz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 16:14   #5
bh46118
Registered User
 
bh46118's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,435
The SV has better light transmission than the best Porro ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Merlitz View Post
This is true, though it has nothing to do with the prism type. The SV has superior edge-sharpness, CA-control and transmission. If you would take a SE/EII and flatten its field, add ED-glasses and state of the art coatings, then you would arrive at the same (if not superior) optical performance, and perhaps 30% cheaper.

Cheers,
Holger
bh46118 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 16:19   #6
oetzi
Registered User
 
oetzi's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 549
"The best" does in reality not exist, only outside reality in certain places.
__________________
No free lunch:
" It is always a compromise in optical systems that you improve one situation but you risk making something else worse."
(Gerold Dobler)
oetzi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 17:29   #7
Kammerdiner
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,765
Dennis,

When you already have the best birding binocular on earth why ask if it's the best??

Let's see. Add ED glass, coatings, field flatteners, eyecups worth the name, super-easy eyepiece design that doesn't give you blackouts, waterproofing, smaller, lighter, and... oh that's right, you've already got the best birding binocular on earth.

Mark
Kammerdiner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 18:01   #8
Torview
Registered User
 
Torview's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dartmoor.
Posts: 2,076
Holger has snookered your question Dennis, we simply don`t know how good a porro could be given the investment lavished on today`s roofs.

Are you an insecure person ? you seem to be seeking approval from other forum members rather often.
Torview is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th August 2013, 22:17   #9
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
 
james holdsworth's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ontario
Posts: 3,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torview View Post
Holger has snookered your question Dennis, we simply don`t know how good a porro could be given the investment lavished on today`s roofs.

Are you an insecure person ? you seem to be seeking approval from other forum members rather often.

Yep, that's it. Dennis came to the exact opposite conclusion last year or so, and started about 10 threads on the subject. Why anyone would take the guy seriously is beyond me. It's the Sybill syndrome plain and simple.
james holdsworth is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 01:08   #10
David Swain
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston area
Posts: 534
Dennis is preparing to dump his porros now that their market price is high, but needs a little false consensus on his "straw man" argument to convince him. Or he's worried by Holger's new piece on the merits of porros. Whatever. This will go several pages also, ad nauseum.
__________________
"For the love of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster, they're only binoculars, and if they didn't exist, we'd just have to stand closer to stuff!" --Sancho

Nikon 8x32SE, 8x30E II
David Swain is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 01:13   #11
horukuru
Here I Come !
 
horukuru's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Near with Mt. Kinabalu, Sabah at Borneo Island
Posts: 6,212
I will keep my 8x32 SE and 8x32 SV in case I need to send one for servicing etc. So still have another bino for birding hahaha
horukuru is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 01:24   #12
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 11,127
Here is an idea.

Stop commenting and see how long it will take him before he starts responding to the comments above.
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Monday 12th August 2013, 03:14   #13
[email protected]
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ky
Posts: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by bh46118 View Post
The SV has better light transmission than the best Porro ?
I don't think so, even Swaro claims better light transmission for their Habicht series of porros compared to their roofs. If I remember the numbers correctly from proudpapa's ebay site it's something like 88-90% light transmission for the SLCs and ELs versus 96% for the Habichts.

Steve
steve@37n84w is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 04:26   #14
[email protected]
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Merlitz View Post
This is true, though it has nothing to do with the prism type. The SV has superior edge-sharpness, CA-control and transmission. If you would take a SE/EII and flatten its field, add ED-glasses and state of the art coatings, then you would arrive at the same (if not superior) optical performance, and perhaps 30% cheaper.

Cheers,
Holger
I agree with you. The SV's have left the porro's in the dust with all the improvements in their latest incarnation. For $600 you can't beat the SE or EII but they aren't the optical equal of the SV's. It is just that when I look through the SV, SE, and EII I am amazed that the SV is quite a bit better. If you want the best view you have to pay the $2K. Sorry, porro's lovers.

Last edited by [email protected] : Monday 12th August 2013 at 04:39.
denco@comcast.n is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 05:01   #15
Torview
Registered User
 
Torview's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dartmoor.
Posts: 2,076
Anybody tried a Perger Porro yet ?
Torview is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 06:23   #16
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 11,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I agree with you. The SV's have left the porro's in the dust with all the improvements in their latest incarnation. For $600 you can't beat the SE or EII but they aren't the optical equal of the SV's. It is just that when I look through the SV, SE, and EII I am amazed that the SV is quite a bit better. If you want the best view you have to pay the $2K. Sorry, porro's lovers.
So! What else is new, Johnny One Note?
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Monday 12th August 2013, 08:05   #17
mulligatawny owl
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I agree with you. The SV's have left the porro's in the dust with all the improvements in their latest incarnation. For $600 you can't beat the SE or EII but they aren't the optical equal of the SV's. It is just that when I look through the SV, SE, and EII I am amazed that the SV is quite a bit better. If you want the best view you have to pay the $2K. Sorry, porro's lovers.
Just a personal preference, but I still prefer the view from the SE and EII better than any roof out there, and I must have tried them all by now, including SV's. Most recently I owned an SLC HD 8x42 for a few months so got to know it quite well, and a stunning bin it was ( apart from the awful focuser) but still it didn't wow me quite as much as the SE.
I guess my eyes just settle more easily into the porro view. Apart from the obvious 3D advantage I seem to perceive a sharper, more transparent, more clearly defined image with the SE's , though I doubt they are really any sharper than the SLC HD or SV.
So, from a purely optical point of view, for me, the SE's are still unsurpassed.
mulligatawny owl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 08:27   #18
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,500
Cool

I don't think I've yet heard a WOW! out of Dennis re:- the 8x32SV .......

I also don't think that *perfunctory* is going to cut it for long (no matter how much reassurance multiple x32SV threads ultimately yield), especially with an x32HT on the horizon ........



Chosun
Chosun Juan is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Monday 12th August 2013, 09:56   #19
Torview
Registered User
 
Torview's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dartmoor.
Posts: 2,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligatawny owl View Post
Just a personal preference, but I still prefer the view from the SE and EII better than any roof out there, and I must have tried them all by now, including SV's. Most recently I owned an SLC HD 8x42 for a few months so got to know it quite well, and a stunning bin it was ( apart from the awful focuser) but still it didn't wow me quite as much as the SE.
I guess my eyes just settle more easily into the porro view. Apart from the obvious 3D advantage I seem to perceive a sharper, more transparent, more clearly defined image with the SE's , though I doubt they are really any sharper than the SLC HD or SV.
So, from a purely optical point of view, for me, the SE's are still unsurpassed.
X2
Torview is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 11:26   #20
Pileatus
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I used to think porro's were better optically than roofs but after comparing the Swarovski 8x32 SV Swarovision to my Nikon 8x32 SE and Nikon 8x30 EII I think the SV is better optically than the SE or EII. What do all you porro lovers think? Have you ever compared them?
I went birding yesterday. We have an 8.5X42 SV, an 8X32 SV and a few 8X32 SE's. I took my SE.

The 8X32 SV beats the SE on many fronts. I commented on that here http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=242005

Anyone using an 8X32 SE is not missing any detail or suffering any loss of color and contrast. I believe the 8X32 SV is the better choice for hard core birders, but that's about it. Would I recommend you buy an SE? Probably not. Go figure.

PS
Dennis, let me know how much you get for your porros.

Last edited by Pileatus : Monday 12th August 2013 at 21:49.
Pileatus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 12:14   #21
bh46118
Registered User
 
bh46118's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,435
Well that does it then, I will immediately abandon my Porros and order an SV. Dennis's reputation as a non waffling arbiter of all things optical has made this previously confusing issue crystal clear to me. Damn what a relief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I agree with you. The SV's have left the porro's in the dust with all the improvements in their latest incarnation. For $600 you can't beat the SE or EII but they aren't the optical equal of the SV's. It is just that when I look through the SV, SE, and EII I am amazed that the SV is quite a bit better. If you want the best view you have to pay the $2K. Sorry, porro's lovers.
bh46118 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 14:28   #22
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
 
james holdsworth's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ontario
Posts: 3,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I agree with you. The SV's have left the porro's in the dust with all the improvements in their latest incarnation. For $600 you can't beat the SE or EII but they aren't the optical equal of the SV's. It is just that when I look through the SV, SE, and EII I am amazed that the SV is quite a bit better. If you want the best view you have to pay the $2K. Sorry, porro's lovers.
I hate to keep this going but, Dennis, didn't your SV's fail the vaunted '' DVD test'' against all of your porro's?
james holdsworth is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 14:37   #23
Torview
Registered User
 
Torview's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dartmoor.
Posts: 2,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
I hate to keep this going but, Dennis, didn't your SV's fail the vaunted '' DVD test'' against all of your porro's?
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.ph...&postcount=414

"Nothing can beat a porro outside of another porro. In terms of sheer optical performance a roof will(As Taylor Swift puts it) never ever, ever, ever beat a porro."


"never ever ever ever eh !
Torview is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 15:42   #24
FrankD
Registered User
 
FrankD's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,401
So, either stance was incorrect or there is unit to unit inconsistency?
__________________
Visit our Optics Review site......
http://opticstheviewfromhere.com/
Digiscoped videos .....
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAf...1LMvsLF0DExoog
FrankD is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th August 2013, 16:36   #25
Gilmore Girl
Beth
 
Gilmore Girl's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,507
But in fairness Dennis...you've never tested this one against the SV:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Giant%20Binoculars%20WEB1.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	22.4 KB
ID:	457493  
Gilmore Girl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Worlds best roof prism versus the world's best porro prism binocular! [email protected] Binoculars 203 Thursday 2nd August 2012 17:20
The Best roof prism binocular in the world versus the best porro prism binocular in t [email protected] Binoculars 9 Sunday 8th July 2012 07:45
Porro, Roof, Both jaymoynihan Binoculars 6 Wednesday 12th October 2011 10:27
Porro v Roof - which & why? Quacker Binoculars 10 Thursday 26th May 2005 20:19
porro or roof? smallblueplanet Binoculars 55 Wednesday 23rd June 2004 23:05

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.20152712 seconds with 35 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 10:10.