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Habicht: 8x30 or 10x40?

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Old Tuesday 21st July 2015, 08:23   #1
Hermann
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Habicht: 8x30 or 10x40?

I think I want another Habicht, either the 8x30 or the 10x40. I know all about the size and weight differences and so on, so that's an aspect that doesn't concern me at all. I also know about the short eyerelief of both models, and the fairly stiff focusing. No problems there.

However, I want the highest optical quality possible, and I don't know these two models well enough to come to a conclusion on which is better. I know some folks here know both models well, so I'd appreciate some thoughts on how these two models compare. I'm especially interested in glare resistance. From what I've seen the 8x30 has a fair amount of veiling glare, something the 7x42 doesn't have at all. What's the 10x40 like, compared to the 8x30 (and the 7x42)?

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Old Tuesday 21st July 2015, 11:47   #2
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Hermann,

I have three 8x30 (one newish military, one newish rubber armour, one mint older) and two 10x40 (one new rubber armour, one mint older). I also have two older 7x42 and a 6x30. I'm adding more constantly.

Your question is a tough one. At their price, Get both soon, and get them new if you can, the 10x40 in rubber. They both have a much much larger apparent field of view than the 7x42. Don't muck about. I have no idea how long Swarovski will continue to make these for. They have a 35yr warranty and Swarovski will keep a full backlog of parts after production ceases. The 8x30 is reputed to be the sweet spot of habicht, and it is truly amazing, but what shocked me was just how good and sweet the 10x40 is. It is stunning. Monstrous resolving power. In fact, if I was to have only two binos it would be these two (I have a full set of alphas including 32 and 42 SV). To me, in some ways the 10x40 Habicht has an easier view than th 8x30. It has the same brutally bright and razor sharp 3D image. I've looked for it, and looked hard, but I see no down side optically whatsoever in the 10x40...just a bit more power with a slightly larger and less fussy exit pupil. Glare resistance might be slightly better in the 10x40 too....but a little glare now and then is something I take just fine.

I'm also a big fan of their old school optical formula....a big fat sweet spot with slight degradation increasing nearing the edges. No rolling ball...no strange compensatory optical phenomena to ensure a sharp to the edge image which I never nauseatingly swivel my eyeballs to use anyway...on any of my binocs. The big sweet spot is what matters most.

The newly coated habichts are so bright, that in brighter conditions, the vintage ones with their yellow tint can sometimes come as a relief.

If I was put on a desert island with one bino to last my days, I would probably choose the 10x40 Habicht in Rubber Armour. It's still very compact. Due to size, The Bino I have had constantly in my man bag is the 8x30, but lately I've been carrying the surprisingly slender 10x40 as well. The 10x40 may replace it for a while as my daily carry.

These habichts take a bit of technique, practice and skill to use...You don't just shove them into your eye sockets for instant gratification like you can with a Swarovision. But To my eyes, i do believe they are optically superior. 3D, depth of field, brightness and sharpness, value and robustness...and that very rare x-factor 'optical pop'.

Ok... My thoughts,...Given you have the 7x42 (I assume) get the 10x40 first, then the 8x30. Don't forget that the rubber armour gives you slightly better eye cups, and it won't slide about in a car etc.

Please feel free to ask me any more specific questions.

Rathaus

Last edited by Rathaus : Tuesday 21st July 2015 at 12:47.
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2015, 14:42   #3
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Hello Hermann,

I have had 5 Habicht 10x40 and two 8x30. Plus, a friend still have a 7x42. Now I have only a 10x40 W BGA from the last batches with the last coatings and all. The others were from the old ones with the yellow tints.
I agree 100% with Rathaus! Mainly about the fantastic resolving power (all versions) for me, THE NUMBER ONE atribute a binocular must have. Period. The only binoculars I have owned, and own now, wich is equal, slightly better I must say, in center resolution have been the Zeiss 10x42 FL and HT respectively.
About glare, that veiling o milky glare looking toward at a close angle to the sun, the 10x40 W BGA is better, slightly but clearly, than the Zeiss. Has some stray lights but nothing serious.
At down and dusk lights, the Habicht is nothing less than fantasctic! No difference with the HT!!!
If I have to chose only one binocular to live with I would be in a serious doubt between this two: Habicht 10x40/Zeiss HT 10x42......
I donīt like the 7x42 Habicht. In spite of its tremendous clarity and resolving power for a 7x, I donīt like the narrow field of view for a 7x...

Good luck!

PHA
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2015, 17:10   #4
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Excellent replies from both PHA, and Rathaus! And I probably do not have much to add to their posts above.

But I can give my opinion on which one I would get next if you already have the 7x42. I would get the 10x40- as long as you get on fine with 10x bins. I used to have a new model 8x30 ( and may again in the future); and I now have a new 2015 7x42; and a older ( 1965) 10x40 Habicht. Hermann- you know how good the 7x42 is, and the 10x40 is also truely excellent, and would be nice compliment to your 7x42. The newer 10x40 Habichts would be even better than my older one. Although I was surprised by how well my older 10x40 Habicht held its own when comparing it to a great 10x42 SE that I had.

As to veiling glare and other stray light issues- the 7x42 and the 10x40 are both a bit better than the 8x30. That being said, the glare issue was never a real issue with me with the 8x30, but I tend to just adapt to the bin. But it is more of an issue on the 8x30 than it is with the 40/42 Habichts.

The 8x30 Habicht is a classic fantastic bin, and I would consider getting one of those after the 10x40. Unless funds are no problem at all- then just get both.

As to rubber vs the traditional leatherette, that is personal choice. The classic leatherette is fine with me, but these Habichts are not my rough and ready bins- even though they can probably take it fine. My rough and ready ones are my SLC's.

Have fun with the choices and buying decisions. These Habichts are a classic optical wonder- that are much more than a niche old school offering; as optically IMO, they can hang with any of the new school cool kid bins.
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2015, 17:58   #5
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I'm waiting to hear from PP if the 10x40's floppy rubber eyecups fit the 8x30 model before I decide where to spend my lottery winnings. However, as president of the "Help Stamp Out Veiling Glare in Our Lifetime Society of America" non-profit corporation, I would be very disappointed if the veiling glare couldn't be controlled in the 8x30 model with the addition of Bushwacker covers. It helped with the 8x30 EII.

If I already owned the 7x42 model (after being treated for claustrophobia), I would probably pick the 10x40 (if I could hold 10x steady) to complement it since 8x is only a 1x step up and you'll have to do a lot more focusing with the stiff focuser with the 8x than you do with the 7x.

Since 10x bins are most often used for distance where depth of field is not as big an issue, you will need to do less focusing with the 10x than with the 8x. So in that sense, it will be more like your 7x.

I would also go for the Gummi armor version of the 10x40 for its better grip and more comfortable eyecups, and for variety, the 7x42 and 10x40 leatherette covered versions look nearly identical. If you buy another leatherette version, you might pick up the wrong bin walking out the door!

@Rathaus. The 35yr warranty might apply Down Under and in the US, but my understanding is that in Europe, the longest warranty you can get is 10 years. However, given that the Habichts haven't changed in 35 years (except for the coatings), Swaro should probably be well stocked with spare parts if needed.

<B>
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Old Tuesday 21st July 2015, 20:34   #6
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Originally Posted by brocknroller View Post
I'm waiting to hear from PP if the 10x40's floppy rubber eyecups fit the 8x30 model before I decide where to spend my lottery winnings. However, as president of the "Help Stamp Out Veiling Glare in Our Lifetime Society of America" non-profit corporation, I would be very disappointed if the veiling glare couldn't be controlled in the 8x30 model with the addition of Bushwacker covers. It helped with the 8x30 EII.

If I already owned the 7x42 model (after being treated for claustrophobia), I would probably pick the 10x40 (if I could hold 10x steady) to complement it since 8x is only a 1x step up and you'll have to do a lot more focusing with the stiff focuser with the 8x than you do with the 7x.

Since 10x bins are most often used for distance where depth of field is not as big an issue, you will need to do less focusing with the 10x than with the 8x. So in that sense, it will be more like your 7x.

I would also go for the Gummi armor version of the 10x40 for its better grip and more comfortable eyecups, and for variety, the 7x42 and 10x40 leatherette covered versions look nearly identical. If you buy another leatherette version, you might pick up the wrong bin walking out the door!

@Rathaus. The 35yr warranty might apply Down Under and in the US, but my understanding is that in Europe, the longest warranty you can get is 10 years. However, given that the Habichts haven't changed in 35 years (except for the coatings), Swaro should probably be well stocked with spare parts if needed.

<B>
If you are referring to the current 10x40 GA rubber eye cups (they aren't floppy really) I can confirm that yes, they perfectly fit the current 8x30 Habicht. Looks weird but fits perfect. A bigger and better eye cup no doubt. The older models have different thread sizes on the eye cups, so I am only referring to current models. I've tried them on my little leather 8x30 and they do work great.

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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 03:53   #7
Rathaus
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Hello Hermann,

I have had 5 Habicht 10x40 and two 8x30. Plus, a friend still have a 7x42. Now I have only a 10x40 W BGA from the last batches with the last coatings and all. The others were from the old ones with the yellow tints.
I agree 100% with Rathaus! Mainly about the fantastic resolving power (all versions) for me, THE NUMBER ONE atribute a binocular must have. Period. The only binoculars I have owned, and own now, wich is equal, slightly better I must say, in center resolution have been the Zeiss 10x42 FL and HT respectively.
About glare, that veiling o milky glare looking toward at a close angle to the sun, the 10x40 W BGA is better, slightly but clearly, than the Zeiss. Has some stray lights but nothing serious.
At down and dusk lights, the Habicht is nothing less than fantasctic! No difference with the HT!!!
If I have to chose only one binocular to live with I would be in a serious doubt between this two: Habicht 10x40/Zeiss HT 10x42......
I donīt like the 7x42 Habicht. In spite of its tremendous clarity and resolving power for a 7x, I donīt like the narrow field of view for a 7x...

Good luck!

PHA
PHA
I'm still interested - which binocular would you end up choosing as your one and only if you had to use it to hunt and heavily rely on it for the next 25years or more?!
Habicht 10x40 or Zeiss HT 10x42?
Rathaus

Last edited by Rathaus : Wednesday 22nd July 2015 at 03:56.
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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 06:48   #8
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Rathaus,

Mmmm...I am not decided, yet...Ja! But pulling the rope harder I think the Habicht would be the one. Mainly because its mechanics and build quality. Even in case of a fix needed, this traditional Porro would be easer to do.
One of the old Habicht, the first one actually, was a sample of a though binocular! I bought it used, well used, in 1981. I used it hard during the next 20 years! It lost almost all the hard ruber leatherlike cover. Was a hugly looking binocular, really. BUT it worked as in the first day with me, tight in the movements of the focusing, never fogged and perfectly collimated!!!!!! It was stolen from my truck one day in 2001. A friend was lost!!
Edited. By the way, a few years ago I compared my actual Habicht with a Nikon SE 10x42. Not even close...! Neither in optics nor mechanics!

Last edited by PHA : Wednesday 22nd July 2015 at 06:56.
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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 08:03   #9
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Rathaus,

Mmmm...I am not decided, yet...Ja! But pulling the rope harder I think the Habicht would be the one. Mainly because its mechanics and build quality. Even in case of a fix needed, this traditional Porro would be easer to do.
One of the old Habicht, the first one actually, was a sample of a though binocular! I bought it used, well used, in 1981. I used it hard during the next 20 years! It lost almost all the hard ruber leatherlike cover. Was a hugly looking binocular, really. BUT it worked as in the first day with me, tight in the movements of the focusing, never fogged and perfectly collimated!!!!!! It was stolen from my truck one day in 2001. A friend was lost!!
Edited. By the way, a few years ago I compared my actual Habicht with a Nikon SE 10x42. Not even close...! Neither in optics nor mechanics!
PHA

You have posted and vouched for the mighty Habicht for many a year, but not in excess...and because of the sincerity and balance of your feedback and experience, one of the main reasons I got my very first Habicht was because of your past posts on here and your stories about the resolution and how your old one was still working perfectly. Now I know exactly what you mean!

So therefore PHA I must thank you for introducing me to my favourite binocular. What's more, I bought it without viewing it first! It by far exceeded my expectations. The Habicht also returned me to my natural inclination towards a Porro binocular...like when I was a child.
From across the world I make a toast to you with a large glass of Shiraz

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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 10:15   #10
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Hi Rathaus,

Oh! You did take a risk!!!! I am glad it was not a mistake! Thank you for your words.
Great wine your Shiraz!
By the way, one of my son (the third of four, right know all outside Argentina, around the world...), an Oil Engenier, is just arrived at Adelaide! Where he and his wife will be the next two years. She is starting a Master Degree in Engeniering.

Best Regard,

PHA
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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 14:18   #11
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Thanks a lot for the replies. It's always good to hear from users who actually use their stuff in the field. I reckon I'm going to go for the 10x40. the only think I'm not yet decided on is whther to get the rubber-armoured version or the traditional version. I'm usually trying to keep the weight down as much as possible, and the rubber-armoured version is a something like 90-100 gr. heavier than the traditional version.

Decisions decisions ... :-)

BTW, can someone perhaps check the "real" weight of the rubber-armoured version (without the rainguard and the strap)? The information on the Swarovski website is a bit outdated, I think. The leather-clad Habicht 7x42 is still quoted as weighing 690 gr., whereas mine (from 2013) weighs 618 gr. ...

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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 14:49   #12
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Hermann,

Having had both, I strongly recomend the rubber armoured version! It still is a lightweight 10x40 binocular! And the type of rubber is very different to all other rubber coats I have seen in any binocular! It is an army type rubber, going to outlast its user!

Good luck!

PHA
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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 21:07   #13
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Thanks a lot for the replies. It's always good to hear from users who actually use their stuff in the field. I reckon I'm going to go for the 10x40. the only think I'm not yet decided on is whther to get the rubber-armoured version or the traditional version. I'm usually trying to keep the weight down as much as possible, and the rubber-armoured version is a something like 90-100 gr. heavier than the traditional version.

Decisions decisions ... :-)

BTW, can someone perhaps check the "real" weight of the rubber-armoured version (without the rainguard and the strap)? The information on the Swarovski website is a bit outdated, I think. The leather-clad Habicht 7x42 is still quoted as weighing 690 gr., whereas mine (from 2013) weighs 618 gr. ...

Hermann
You already have the super classic 7x42 so I'd definitely go for the rubber GA this time. I have no micro scales otherwise I'd do a weigh in. The 10x has extra lenses in the eyepieces which will add a few grams. I honestly wouldn't concern yrself with the weight difference. It's minute. The rubber GA is such a tough bino that you'll be comfortable using it with its shaving bag case, or no case. It's military grade rubber is its case. You can shove this bino on a boulder or rock and it just sits clinging there because of the rubber. No sliding. Car seat or dashboard the same. These are assets I was completely impressed with and now can't do without in the field. Much much better than my equivalent fujinon rubber coatings. The GA also has bigger and better eye cups, a reason that some people choose the GA for alone.

Good luck, and give us your impressions whatever you get.
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Old Wednesday 22nd July 2015, 21:22   #14
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Hi Rathaus,

Oh! You did take a risk!!!! I am glad it was not a mistake! Thank you for your words.
Great wine your Shiraz!
By the way, one of my son (the third of four, right know all outside Argentina, around the world...), an Oil Engenier, is just arrived at Adelaide! Where he and his wife will be the next two years. She is starting a Master Degree in Engeniering.

Best Regard,

PHA
PHA
Glad to hear your kids are doing well. Adelaide has amazing food and our best wine and markets with wonderful produce. It's also a beautiful city. I live a few thousand km to the northeast, but have a soft spot for Adelaide. All the best to your son and daughter in law.

Best Regards
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Old Thursday 23rd July 2015, 11:46   #15
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@Hermann
Just take care that your Habicht model of choice was manufactured 2011 or later. That was the last time they updated the coatings on these models. It's pretty easy to identify by the serial number eg. A8107xxxxx where 81=2011 (82=2012, and so on) - 07 is the production week.
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Old Thursday 23rd July 2015, 19:40   #16
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@Hermann
Just take care that your Habicht model of choice was manufactured 2011 or later. That was the last time they updated the coatings on these models. It's pretty easy to identify by the serial number eg. A8107xxxxx where 81=2011 (82=2012, and so on) - 07 is the production week.
How did you acquire this information?
Some newish ones appear to have a double different serial number one directly above the other bothe starting with 8.
Which one do you date by?
A8xxx
8xxxx

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Old Thursday 23rd July 2015, 21:50   #17
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How did you acquire this information?
Some newish ones appear to have a double different serial number one directly above the other bothe starting with 8.
Which one do you date by?
A8xxx
8xxxx
So A8001 first prod week of 2010
A8855 is th 55th prod week of 2018?
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Old Friday 24th July 2015, 06:57   #18
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@Rathaus
I have not seen a double different serial number yet, so I don't have a clue what that means. But I will ask someone who should know. In the past the the Axxxxyyyyy number was the relevant one. A Dutch member in a forum unveiled this information a few years ago. The information regarding the last update of the coatings I got directly from a Swarovski rep.
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Old Friday 24th July 2015, 07:14   #19
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@Rathaus
I have not seen a double different serial number yet, so I don't have a clue what that means. But I will ask someone who should know. In the past the the Axxxxyyyyy number was the relevant one. A Dutch member in a forum unveiled this information a few years ago. The information regarding the last update of the coatings I got directly from a Swarovski rep.
Many thanks - if somebody could date this it'd be interesting and much appreciated.
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Old Friday 24th July 2015, 09:01   #20
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NOW I know what confused you. Your serial number is A800289991 simply split in two lines. This model was manufactured in the second week of 2010.
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Old Friday 24th July 2015, 18:41   #21
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Just take care that your Habicht model of choice was manufactured 2011 or later. That was the last time they updated the coatings on these models. It's pretty easy to identify by the serial number eg. A8107xxxxx where 81=2011 (82=2012, and so on) - 07 is the production week.
Thanks, especially for the piece of information on the update of the coatings. I've known how the serial number work for quite some time, the information was posted on this forum as well. However, I don't think this works with old binoculars.

BTW, my Habicht 7x42 is from 2012, week 50.

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Old Tuesday 28th July 2015, 22:09   #22
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Thanks, especially for the piece of information on the update of the coatings. I've known how the serial number work for quite some time, the information was posted on this forum as well. However, I don't think this works with old binoculars.

BTW, my Habicht 7x42 is from 2012, week 50.

Hermann
So what's happening Hermann? Are you in the purchasing phase yet?
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Old Wednesday 29th July 2015, 11:49   #23
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So what's happening Hermann? Are you in the purchasing phase yet?
Well, I'm still thinking about it. I think for my style of birding the stiffish focuser is going to be a problem with the 10x40, especially in autumn at migration hotspots. The 7x42 isn't too bad (although by no means ideal) because of the lower magnification, but the 10x40 would be pushing it, I think.

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Old Thursday 30th July 2015, 03:42   #24
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Well, I'm still thinking about it. I think for my style of birding the stiffish focuser is going to be a problem with the 10x40, especially in autumn at migration hotspots. The 7x42 isn't too bad (although by no means ideal) because of the lower magnification, but the 10x40 would be pushing it, I think.

Hermann
Hermann

My current 10x40 GA is easier in the focus than the leather 8x30! They will vary slightly. I have worked my 8x30 focuser back and forth a lot and it has definitely loosened a little. A few hours of this and it'd be just about sorted. My 20-50 yr old Habichts are all incredibly easy in the focus (like a hot knife through butter) so it is definitely a time and use issue.

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Old Thursday 30th July 2015, 11:06   #25
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My current 10x40 GA is easier in the focus than the leather 8x30! They will vary slightly. I have worked my 8x30 focuser back and forth a lot and it has definitely loosened a little. A few hours of this and it'd be just about sorted. My 20-50 yr old Habichts are all incredibly easy in the focus (like a hot knife through butter) so it is definitely a time and use issue.
Well, there's a difference between the old and the new Habichts because the newer ones are waterproof. The stiff focusing is due to the seals between the eyepieces and the body.

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