Helena's Parotia (1 Viewer)

Whilst in the process of researching for a projected book on Birds of Paradise and Bowerbirds, I was writing a species account for Eastern Parotia (Parotia helenae) and came across two conflicting accounts of the derivation of helenae:

helenae has two alternate explanations, the first and more obscure being that is was named after Helena Ford, daughter of Australian oologist A. Scott (Jobling 2010), or perhaps the more plausible that is was named for Princess Helena Augusta Victoria, a daughter of Queen Victoria (Frith & Frith 2010)

Can someone who knows please enlighten me? Thanks in advance

● Eastern Parotia Parotia helenae DE VIZ 1897 (here) a k a "Helena's Parotia" or "Helena's Six-wired Bird-of-Paradise".

However; no dedication, nor any out-spoken explanation.

I don´t know the basis for either claim (it´s not an Eponym on my list), but The Author Charles Walter de Vis (1829-1915) was English and it could surely have been aimed at the mentioned Princess (but I doubt it, as commemoration intended for Royals almost always are both long, lingering and cringing) and what the other Helena (whoever she is?) "Helena Forde, (d. 1910) daughter of the Australian oologist Dr. A. Scott" (in both 2010 and the HBW ALIVE Key 2016, here) could have to do with this bird .. I simply don´t know?

By the way: "The Scott sisters"; Helena Scott (later Mrs Forde, 1832–1910) [most likely James's Helena, or?] and her older sister Harriet Scott (later Mrs Morgan, 1830–1907) were both fairly skilled Bird illustrators. Their Father was Alexander Walker Scott (1800–1883), cattle rancher and a fairly well-known entomologist. If also an "oologist" is unknown to me (his father was a "Dr.", physician).

The only reason (in my mind) that this bird would commemorate Mrs Forbe is that she made the Plate, but there´s apparently no such thing in the OD!?

I would start to look for a relative (Wife) of the Italian Mr. Giulianetti (the collector himself, who collected the Type in New Guinea, in 1896). Or for a relative (wife, daughter?) of de Viz.

Good luck finding her!
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At least not clear from OD. The name may as well related to Amedeo Giulianetti (wife?), William MacGregor, Tommaso Salvadori or Charles Walter De Vis. All mentioned here. (most already mentioned by Björn. He was a little bit quicker). In The Eponym Dictionary of Birds the explanaition where Helena Scott derived from.

Here p. 89 similar is published again.

Just checking the reference to Macgregoria pulchra DE VIS 1897 (here, p, 251, mentioned as reference in the foot-note, introductory page of the OD-article, p.371)

The bird, of which I forward a specimen, appears to belong to a new genus of Paradiseidæ, which I propose to name (by request), after Lady Macgregor :— Macgregoria, gen. nov.

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The two wifes of the Scotish Sir William MacGregor (1846–1919), was: first Mary née Thomson (married 1868, she died in 1877), second; Lady Mary Jane Macgregor née Cocks (married in 1883, she died in 1919).

No Helena there!

Björn

PS. The wife of Charles Walter de Vis (1829-1915) was: Katherine Elizabeth Luckle, née Coulson.
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If here is any helpful I don't know. My italian is only rudimentary.

P.S. Regarding De Vis. His first wife died 1897 in Wellington (and was not Katherine Elizabeth Luckle) according to german Wikipedia and here.

Maybe if we know to whom Mount Helena was dedicated, we know to whom the dedication is? See here from the same author de Vis. After here

The island did not receive the name "St Helena" until 1828. A story is told that an Aboriginal man known as Napoleon stole an axe on North Stradbroke Island. Like his namesake, Napoleon Bonaparte, he was exiled to another island, thereafter called St Helena. His exile lasted only as long as it took to build a canoe and paddle back.

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Taphrospilus said:

P.S. Regarding De Vis. His first wife died 1897 in Wellington (and was not Katherine Elizabeth Luckle) according to german Wikipedia and here

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"His first wife died in 1897; at Wellington, New Zealand, on 9 September 1898 he married a widow, Katherine Elizabeth Luckle, née Coulson"

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Still make´s her his wife. Name of wife No. 1 unknown to me.

Taphrospilus said:

Maybe if we know to whom Mount Helena was dedicated, we know to whom the dedication is?

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I don´t see what the Island Saint Helena (in Moreton Bay, off Brisbane, Australia) has to do what-so-ever with this bird (!!?) … the Type was collected at "Mount Scratchley, at 4000 feet, Nov. 3rd-4th, 1896", and that´s a mountain peak near Kokoda, in Northern Province, Papua New Guinea (here)

Please enlighten us!

The Eponym Dictionary of Birds cites Wynne for Helena Scott Forde being who the bird was named after. Even though they suggest the princess. Owen Wynne self published, Bibliographical key-names of birds of the world— to authors and those commemorated. An Italian website says : In Wikipedia si legge " The scientific name honors Princess Helena Augusta Victoria, the third daughter of Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom ". Non esiste alcun riscontro in merito; è una citazione errata, inventata. Inventata sounds bad.
http://www.scricciolo.com/Nuovo_Neornithes/cronologia_7.htm .

mb1848 said:

The Eponym Dictionary of Birds cites Wynne for Helena Scott Forde being who the bird was named after. ... .

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As do Jobling, I assume ... but why should it commemorate her? That´s the main question.

However, any wife (or presumed daughter/s) of the Vis is a dead end! His first wife was Julia née Holmes (and they had five sons, no daughters; Edwin, Charles, Harry, George and Walter), the former stayed in England when her husband (and the two latter sons) left for Australia.

Back to square one. Only leaves us with an acquaintance of Amedeo Giulianetti.

Björn

PS. See this link, to the Words of Mr Giulianetti himself (here, in Italian, p.4) regarding the climb of Mt. Scratchley and the discovery of the Parotia.

If of any use?
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If the original description fails to make it clear exactly for whom the bird was named then we can never be absolutely certain (unless further information in the form of letters or some such becomes available). Hence, I'd argue that the safest course would be "derivation uncertain" adding, if there's space, "possibly Helena Forde (née Scott), daughter of the Australian oologist Dr A. Scott or Princess Helena Augusta Victoria, a daughter of Queen Victoria".

Thank you everybody for your contributions, I will dig a bit further and take a look at Iredale's Birds of Paradise to see what that has to say, I was just surprised to find that the two good reference books both published in 2010 (Jobling's Dictionary, which is also on the HBW site as links, and the Frith's Birds of Paradise: Nature Art History) had such different derivations. I will probably include both explanations but try to find which it actually was, and be interesting to know why the link if it was the oologist's daughter.

I guess one starting point is to find out who the "Australian oologist Dr. A. Scott" truly was. I´ve found no such person.

The closest oologist linked to any Mrs. Forde that I could find was Edward Ramsay (she was intended to illustrate his proposed, but never published, book On the Oology of Australia).

Note that the entomologist and Father of the illustrating Helena Forde (née Scott) was, in every-day-life, called Walker Scott. And he wasn´t any Doctor. Maybe it´s not her at all, but yet another Helena, an unknown daughter of a ditto oologist?

I get the feeling something is a bit mixed-up here. However, I gave it my best shot. I cannot find anything more. Time to deal with other etymologies.

Please keep us up-dated on whatever you find.
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Calalp said:

I don´t see what the Island Saint Helena (in Moreton Bay, off Brisbane, Australia) has to do what-so-ever with this bird (!!?) … the Type was collected at "Mount Scratchley, at 4000 feet, Nov. 3rd-4th, 1896", and that´s a mountain peak near Kokoda, in Northern Province, Papua New Guinea (here)

Please enlighten us!

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At the time of post I speculated Saint Helena was dedicated for Helena Augusta Victoria. But I agree I see no connection between both Helenas and I see no real connection to the princess.

Calalp said:

His first wife was Julia née Holmes (and they had five sons, no daughters; Edwin, Charles, Harry, George and Walter), the former stayed in England when her husband (and the two latter sons) left for Australia.
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Correct as to read here. The whole article excludes as well his mother Mary Devis here. His name in England was written in one word as Devis and he changed later to de Vis here. Maybe from the name change explanation we may build an affinity to the British crown.

Just an additional guess:

Here is Helen Ludlow De Vis mentioned, died 1897 in Australia the year of the description of Parotia helenae. Who she is I do not have a clue and if there is a relationship to de Vis is based on speculation? Maybe a stepdaughter of the second marriage with the widow Katherine Elizabeth Luckie (think a typo from Bjön Luckle? ) But as I said I do not have facts and no access to more details on the ancestry web page.

Taphrospilus said:

... the widow Katherine Elizabeth Luckie (think a typo from Bjön Luckle? )

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If so, not my typo, see the end of the Australian Biography (here) for Charles Walter de Vis (1829-1915) [née Devis]:

His first wife died in 1897; at Wellington, New Zealand, on 9 September 1898 he married a widow, Katherine Elizabeth Luckle, née Coulson. He died on 30 April 1915 and was buried in the Church of England section of the Toowong cemetery.

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However, whomever Helen Ludlow De Vis was, I guess she is as good a candidate as any other Helen or Helena this far mentioned. But note that she is called simply "Helen Ludlow Vis", same link, some pages further on (loosing connection to the ornithologist de Vis/Devis).

I doubt we will ever know for sure. I fear Helena (or Helen) will remain a mystery.
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Calalp said:

I doubt we will ever know for sure. I fear Helena (or Helen) will remain a mystery.

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Just to add a small consideration ...or the italian name Elena remain a mystery.:eat:

P.S. Here maybe some additional information on Helena Forde née Scott, her father and sister for those who may interested (but no link to the bird we are looking for).

About Parotia helenae: I know this thread was written in 2016 but I'd like to update you all with my information. I have been researching and writing an article on Helena Scott (Forde). I strongly lean towards the view that Charles Walter de Vis named Parotia helenae after Helena Forde (nee Scott). Below is my article's footnote to the naming of the bird after Helena. Helena and De Vis had scientific friends in common and de Vis may have known her or of her or corresponded with her. Helena corresponded with many scientists in her time. Wynne cites Helena as the person the parotia is named after and his book, published in 1969, is the earliest of the etymologies, closest to Helena's time. The other later books claim the bird was named after Princess Helena but neither Wynne nor the others give a reference source for their claim of who the bird was named after. In his first naming in the Ibis, 1897, de Vis does not say who he named the bird after and I have searched the Biodiversity Heritage Library and the de Vis and Scott and North papers and cannot find reference to a source for the name. However because they moved in the same circles and especially because Ramsay named the parotia lawseii and was closely connected to Helena, I think it likely de Vis named the bird after her.

Owen E Wynne, Biographical key-names of birds of the world - to authors and those commemorated, Fordingbridge, England, 1969; Charles Walter de Vis, ”Diagnosis of Thirty-six New or Little-known Birds from British New Guinea” Ibis, 1897, p390. Some bird etymologies claim the bird was named after Princess Helena, daughter of Queen Victoria, but without reference to a source. The naming after Helena Forde is plausible as Helena and de Vis had scientific friends in common; de Vis was curator of the Queensland Museum when Alexander Scott was trustee of the Australian Museum, Edward Ramsay had named Parotia lawseii, Helena had prepared drawings of birds’ eggs for his proposed oological publication, and Arthur North who corresponded with de Vis, was ornithologist of the Australian Museum when vol 2 of the Lepidoptera was published. De Vis could have met or corresponded with Helena or at least known of her reputation.​

Here is one article about Helena and the Scott family. https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/scott-alexander-walker-4545

I have also uploaded a photo of the Wynne reference. I would like to point out that Wynne described Helena in abbreviations as "daughter of AW Scott. Entomologist, oologist, artist New South Wales". He was describing Helena as the entomologist, oologist and artist, not her father. AW Scott was an entomologist but not an oologist. Helen deserved to be called an oologist because she illustrated the eggs for Ramsay's birds' eggs publication. Helena was also an entomologist having been elected an honorary member of the Entomological Society of NSW and illustrated The Lepidoptera. All subsequent books who quote Wynne, misread Wynne's description of Helena and attribute to AW Scott the titles of entomologist and oologist when it should be read with a full stop after the name Scott and the new sentence describes Helena.

Can't confirm the dedicatee but can confirm these dates based on the primary documents:

Helena SCOTT
1832–1910
BIRTH 11 APR 1832 • Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
MARRIAGE 5 APRIL 1864 • Ash Island, New South Wales, Australia to Edward FORDE
DEATH 24 NOV 1910 • Parramatta, New South Wales, Australia

Two issues here:

1) It was Rothschild's opinion that the holotype skin was NOT collected by MacGregor nor by Giulianetti but by A.S. Anthony (Alearce Savery Anthony a Mauritian or Maltese planter and collector in New Gunea d. 1920). Given his heritage, Rothschild was very keen to ensure that the true "workers" got the credit.


This opinion is backup by this paper


A.S. Anthony is very interesting. See here (on pg 38):


"At the time of his death, Anthony claimed Malta as his birthplace. (Papuan Courier, 24 Sept. 1920) He was also believed to have been 'MacGregor's taxidermist'.""



2) The tallest mountains of the Owen Stanley range were named after the British Royal Family by MacGregor who was obviously a rabid royalist. The eastern extremity of the range is Mount Victoria, and the mountain beside Mt Scratchley is Mount Albert Edward. It makes perfect sense to me that a bird collected by the party would be named after Victoria's daughter Helena Augusta Victoria Saxe-Coburg Gotha (1846-1923).

P

Note:

Although a royalist McGregor was not racist (by the standards of the day) as can been seen here (especially last paragraph):

https://doi-org/10.2307/1801475

Amazing what can be unearthed, but we still have two plausible options for this name. Thanks to everyone for continuing the exploration, we may yet get there..

Sorry, but I simply couldn't keep my fingers away from ...

• the Eastern Parotia Parotia helenae DE WIS 1897, as "Parotia helenæ", a k a Helena's Parotia, or Helena's Six-wired Bird-of-Paradise (alt. even 'Eastern Lawes's Parotia', by those who consider, alt. considered , it a ssp.; 'Parotia lawesii helenae')

PScofield said:

Two issues here:

1) It was Rothschild's opinion that the holotype skin was NOT collected by MacGregor nor by Giulianetti but by A.S. Anthony ...

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Sorry Paul, I'm not sure I agree, where did you find/read the information of Rothschild's opinion about the "holotype skin" itself ?!?

With this said, even if I haven't been able to determine (with a 100% certainty) who truly collected the Type/s, but I tend to believe that the collector (in 1896) was Mr. Amedeo Giulianetti (who worked for Sir William Macgregor), exactly as told by Charles W. de Vis himself (in the very OD).

As I see it "Rothschild's opinion" (in 1903) was regarding the specimens kept at/in the Tring collection (England) ... as I read that certain part/article* Rothschild wrote only about the skins "at present in our possesion", and from what I can tell he didn't write anything about the "holotype", of "Parotia helenae De Vis". And note that it's not to be seen in the BNHM's Bird type specimens database, like other 'similar' specimens (as for example/s, here or here); "Presented by the Queensland Museum".

Also, note that most of de Vis's specimens ended up in the Queensland Museum, Australia. For example, see Ingram's Arcticle/Paper Avian Type Specimens in the Queensland Museum, in Memoirs of the Queensland Museum 25, from 1987 (here), or the excerpt below, and note his choice of words: "all":



Or do you mean that Rothschild actually had that certain specimen, the male one, today "missing", from/in the Queensland Museum collection?

However, it doesn't seem to solve the Etymology itself, about whom the dedicatee might be in the Eastern Parotia (Bird-of-Paradise) Parotia helenae DE VIS 1897, as I see it we're still stuck, just as we were back in 2016, with either the Princess or Miss Scott/Mrs Forde.

Though, and this I have to admit (again, just like in post #2, from back in 2016). I find it somewhat disturbing that the OD doesn't include a clear and out-spoken dedication, if dedicated to a Royal princess (even more so if Sir MacGregor truly was a "rabid royalist ", like Paul put it), simply as most dedications (that we've seen earlier) aimed at certain Royals almost always have been both long and lingering, often somewhat oily and clearly ingratiating, from a 'humble and obedient servant' (that is if MacGregor himself was involved, personally, in coining this name, of course).

Either way, to me, this far the shady and obscure; Helen/e/a or even Elena (alt. similar versions of her name) remain in the Dusk, as nothing but an undetermined or still non-identified Lady (contemporary, or not). That is if it's an Eponym at all, of course?

Either way, this far, I'd keep the explanation of this Eponym open, just like Phil Gregory did, in his book Birds of Paradise and Bowerbirds (Helm, 2019), here (even if I myself would have written the name of the first suggested, possible dedicatee as Miss Scott/Mrs Forde, (and that is also; regardless if she, or he, ever was a "true" oologist, or not).

Good luck solving it!

Björn

PS. Or maybe it simply isn't an Eponym!?! Could it possibly be a Toponym?!?

If so, it would/could explain why de Vis coined/used this name without any explanation/dedication what-so-ever. As we've seen other examples when the -ae ending has been used (without any other explanation) for different locations, one might wonder if there could be a map (or text) where the type location "... , Mt. Scratchley" was called Mount Helen alt. Mt. Helene, or Mt. Helena... ? Or a nearby Hill, Creek, Valley, etc., etc., close to "Neneba, Mt. Scratchley"? Take it for what it's worth, if anything at all, as a suggestion, a possibility, it's just an idea, that suddenly struck me.

Either way, more info on the self-willed, and/but zealous C. W. de Vis** himself, see the Special Issue of Memoirs of the Queensland Museum 28 (1), titled; Proceedings of the de Vis Symposium (here alt. here), from 1990.

/B

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*The very first part of Rothschild's (and Hartert's) Paper on 'Papuan Birds' started in 1901 (here).
**i.e. Charles Walter de Vis (1829–1915, born Devis, a name/spelling that he kept and used until 1882), a k a "Thickthorn" (as Pen name/Pseudonym).
For ALL taxa (many hundreds!) described by him see Appendix 1 (here; pp. 12-22).