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Redhead? Common Pochard? Hybrid? Seoul

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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 18:19   #1
jimthom
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Redhead? Common Pochard? Hybrid? Seoul

Since I have some past experience in South Korea, I sometimes get questions about IDs from there. I recently received a link to an ebird report from Seoul, South Korea from 31 December 2017 around which there is a debate about whether one bird reported is a Redhead, Common Pochard, or some kind of hybrid. I was thinking Redhead because of the sloping forehead, yellow eye, and bill that was not as horizontally held as Common Pochard. But I don’t have a high degree of confidence in my guess. Any ideas? Thanks.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 18:31   #2
RafaelMatias
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Perhaps a Pochard x Ferruginous Duck hybrid?
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 21:37   #3
birdmeister
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Something about the head shape doesn't look quite right for Redhead to me.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 21:39   #4
RafaelMatias
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Something about the head shape doesn't look quite right for Redhead to me.
Head shape + relative size and colour of the eye
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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 00:01   #5
Jeff hopkins
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I can find some redhead photos with a bright yellow eye, but I agree the head shape is more pochard-like than redhead.

Also if the darker grey "shoulders" are real and not a photographic effect, then neither pochard nor redhead have that.
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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 01:18   #6
RafaelMatias
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I can find some redhead photos with a bright yellow eye
Bright yellow yes, from golden-yellow to almost orange, but that very pale, almost whitish eye seems to be extremely rare at best (I couldn't find any). I also meant the eye was disproportionately large, it's just way too big for any Redhead I can find on a (quick, admittedly) google images search (and this feature doesn't seem to result from image quality). And yes, head shape, too narrow/peaked and really closer to Pochard or Ferruginous Duck. In Collins (Svensson et al fieldguide) a hybrid just like this bird is illustrated.
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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 04:18   #7
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I also think it's a hybrid with Common Pochard beeing one of the parents. I case he doesn't see this thread, you might want to PM Joern Lehmhus, he is very much into Duck-hybrids...
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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 15:27   #8
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Thanks for the input everyone. Much appreciated. I just PMed Joern to see if he has any thoughts. I saw the picture Rafael mentioned in Collins of the Ferruginous x Pochard hybrid. A striking resemblance.

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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 16:53   #9
Joern Lehmhus
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Originally Posted by jimthom View Post
Thanks for the input everyone. Much appreciated. I just PMed Joern to see if he has any thoughts. I saw the picture Rafael mentioned in Collins of the Ferruginous x Pochard hybrid. A striking resemblance.
Hi all,

yes, I agree this is a Common Pochard- Ferruginous Duck hybrid. This hybrid is variable, but often the shoulders are darker than the flanks and eye color can appear pale yellowish-white. In most examples of this hybrid, the breast is reddish brown but there are some birds (possibly at least some of them backcrosses to Pochard) with black or partly black breast. Head shape and bill coloration is also good for this hybrid.

Part of the variation is visible in these links (possibly including Backcrosses to einer parent species):

https://waarneming.nl/foto/view/10096029

http://erbirds.ru/blogs/2017/2017010301250101.jpg

http://www.khil.net/blog/wp-content/...uck_aythya.jpg

http://birdhybrids.blogspot.de/2014/...nous-duck.html

https://waarneming.nl/fotonew/4/4461044.jpg

https://waarneming.nl/foto/view/8025307

https://waarneming.nl/foto/view/12645009

http://anserbirding.co.uk/blog/wp-co...y-9-Nov-13.jpg

https://waarneming.nl/foto/view/7840761

http://www.bavarianbirds.net/what/cb...ix/hybrid.html
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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 17:10   #10
RafaelMatias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joern Lehmhus View Post
In most examples of this hybrid, the breast is reddish brown but there are some birds (possibly at least some of them backcrosses to Pochard) with black or partly black breast.
I think I can see a very dark brown/chestnut hue on the chest (becomes more evident on the rear border, contacting the flank) of the OP bird; the contrast seems to be a bit enhanced on the photo.
Here's a few more examples of this hybrid (all photos possibly of the same bird), from this winter and 2012 at the Algarve, Portugal, which might be interesting for your records:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/arade/6842566439/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/arade/38401013691/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/arade/38401012831/

Last edited by RafaelMatias : Tuesday 16th January 2018 at 17:12.
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Old Wednesday 17th January 2018, 23:56   #11
jimthom
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Wow. Thanks Joern for the incredible, detailed information. Mystery solved. Much, much appreciated! Thanks Rafael as well for pointing me in Joern's direction. Also greatly appreciated.
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Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 00:06   #12
RafaelMatias
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Thanks Rafael as well for pointing me in Joern's direction. Also greatly appreciated.
You're welcome, but it was Roland who did that
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