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Absolute top 10x (under $3000)

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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 13:08   #26
dogfish
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Originally Posted by kabsetz View Post
The 10x32 SV is a good suggestion, but she should definitely try the Leica Noctivid 10x42. The image is fantastic, and eye relief for eyeglass wearers among the best, better than the SV.

Kimmo
Better image from the Noctovid than the SF and SV x42s, Kimmo? I've only tried the Noctivid in very bright conditions so found it hard to assess.

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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 13:18   #27
Chosun Juan
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Chosun thanks. I'll look at them all. I think if I could have anything here just based on reviews it would be the Swarovski SV.
Those last couple of % performance are expensive, but if money is no object, or when you get to that age where time is rapidly diminishing, then why not? Certainly after looking through the Swarovskis, reasons why not will be increasingly hard to come by! :)



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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 13:49   #28
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I have the 8X42 MHG not the 10x, but I have the EDG 10X42 and at 790 grams it is light enough and smaller than many 10X42s. It is on the higher price side but it is very well made. and provide a great view.

Stats below

Manufacturer Nikon
Model 10x42 EDG
Lens diameter [mm] 42
Magnification [x] 10
Angular field of view [deg] 6.5
Linear field of view [m/m] 114/1000
Exit pupil [mm] 4.2
Eye relief [mm] 18
Min. focusing dist. [m] 3
Twilight factor 20.5
Brightness 17.6
Prisms BaK-4/roof
Dimensions [mm] 151x141
Weight [g] 790
Waterproof Yes
Nitogen filling Yes
Argon filling No
Image stabilization No
Tripod exit Yes
Focusing central
Warranty [years] 10

A.W.

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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 14:02   #29
black crow
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Those last couple of % performance are expensive, but if money is no object, or when you get to that age where time is rapidly diminishing, then why not? Certainly after looking through the Swarovskis, reasons why not will be increasingly hard to come by! :)



Chosun
That's what I think. If money was no object to me I'd pay a grand to get 1% improvement. I think she will also see it that way. I've only known one other person in my life with more resources and they were in that 1%. I only knew them through a friend but I did go to Burning Man with them.
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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 14:21   #30
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Hey BC, This question is something I've looked quite closely at. I wear glasses too, so all of the following recommendations are suitable for me, and likely your friend also.

1. The best 10x I have seen is the Swarovski 10X50SV, an immersive 3D-like view that seems much wider than its 351ft Fov - it remains my favourite view, though at a fraction under a kilo it's probably too heavy for extended use even with harness for all but the most hairy chested. The ergonomics of grip though are really nice. I have to back the eyecups out a smidge which is very easy and secure to do. Absolutely get your friend to try it though she may prefer something lighter.

For this reason I'd also rule out other binoculars which perform admirably optically - Canon 10x42 IS, Zeiss 10x42 HT, and Leica NoctiVid 10x42. These are, or nearly are as heavy as the big Swaro, have worse ergonomics (perhaps NV excepted), and lesser fields of view (~340ft). A smidge below this is the Swarovski 10x42 SV though I don't find it does much for me ergonomically or optically in comparison to the others (we're talking realtively here and really splitting hairs). If she is going with something that heavy, she may as well get the big mumma 5mm EP, crystalline WOW view 10x50 SV.

2. Next cab down the weight scale is the Zeiss 10x42 SF. A wide 360ft Fov, lightish enough to consider, and OK ergonomics (if a bit contrived), with an ever so (barely noticeable) slight warm side view. I found it more difficult than the others (for me) to set up the eyecups for a satisfactory view. One to try though for sure.

3. Coming in at a very nice light weight, brilliant ergonomics, an equal best 360ft Fov and 99% of the optics of the above mentioned is the Nikon Monarch HG 10x42 for a bit less than a grand. Much smaller in size than any of the above. Definitely one to try - and probably the choice will come down between it and something else.

4. My last recommendation is somewhat of a surprise (well at least it was to me! :) . The Swarovski 10x32 SV ...what a gem of a little binocular. Smallest and lightest of the lot by a comfortable margin, with an equal top 360ft Fov. It performs more like a 10x42 for ease of view. Despite its scant 3.2mm EP it loses virtually nothing in brightness to any of the above even in overcast conditions (something I often run in to with my much younger eyes) .... there's some pretty special voodoo going on in there. Actually most Swarovski's (I just don't see ot to any great degree in other brands - caveat - haven't scrutinized the 10x NV yet) have this kind of punching above your weight 'eyeroamaboutability' because of the purpose designed 'randpupille' (a generous alignment margin of error capability). The best models in this regard are the 8x32 SV, 10x50 SV, 10x32 SV, and the others not so much. (see more of an explanation here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=293766&page=2). Great ergonomics suitable for smaller hands, and has the bonus of coming in a lovely tan colour too.

I recommend that your friend try those 4 bins (even if ruling some out upfront as too big/heavy) just to establish an optical baseline. One of those 4 bins should just jump out at your friend as far as ergonomic feel and optical satisfaction goes.


Chosun
"Hey, BC"--Johnny Hart, 1972
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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 14:22   #31
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blac crow, different posts,
An older lady not of the weightlifting type with enough funds to buy excellent and expensive binoculars to be used in fine lady like hands and with already limited pupil size under low light conditions?
If she lived in Europe I would advise: Swarovski 10x32 SV or Leica Ultravid 10x32 HD, certainly not a 10x42 or 10x50 from whatever brand.
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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 14:39   #32
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That's what I think. If money was no object to me I'd pay a grand to get 1% improvement. I think she will also see it that way. I've only known one other person in my life with more resources and they were in that 1%. I only knew them through a friend but I did go to Burning Man with them.
Burning Man has to be one of the coolest productions of American culture ever!

Lucky you!
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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 15:25   #33
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Yeah I went three times. I couldn't do it now without a luxury camper. I've spent years in the deserts and that is the harshest environment I've ever spent a week in. I heard the military contacted BM to see if they could observe how they managed to put up and take down a city of 60,000 people with that speed and have it look like no one had ever been there. The organization skills are pretty amazing for a bunch of hippie types. That place would be one of the ultimate places to test the build quality of binoculars. If they can stay smooth and optically good in that semi constant blowing palaya talc dust, they they are the best.
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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 22:55   #34
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Talking

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"Hey, BC"--Johnny Hart, 1972
LOL ! I might have seen it when I snuck a look at dad's Sunday newspaper as a whippersnapper, but in this case "B.C." refers more to Before Chosun !

I am though, a keen fan of Gary Larson's - Far Side

Some of his cartoons have been instrumental in forming my philosophies on life ......
Click image for larger version

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And hunting ..... Lol
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ID:	655595



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Old Monday 5th March 2018, 23:38   #35
black crow
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https://www.parigibooks.com/pictures/14381.jpg
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Old Tuesday 6th March 2018, 01:13   #36
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
LOL ! I might have seen it when I snuck a look at dad's Sunday newspaper as a whippersnapper, but in this case "B.C." refers more to Before Chosun !

I am though, a keen fan of Gary Larson's - Far Side

Some of his cartoons have been instrumental in forming my philosophies on life ......
Attachment 655594

And hunting ..... Lol
Attachment 655595

Chosun

I once owned 19 BC paperbacks, including: Life is a $.75 paperback, Life is a $.95 paperback, and Life is a $1.25 paperback. The inside was the same; only the cover revealed inflation. BC often made me laugh to the point of tears and made my once skinny mid-section hurt. For years he proved that one need not stoop to vulgarity to be hilarious!

We still need you, Johnny.

BC
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Old Tuesday 6th March 2018, 23:48   #37
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What exactly do you mean by bigger apertures are better optically? I didn't realize this.
I'm going way back to this because somehow it didn't get answered. Briefly, larger objectives provide a larger exit pupil, better detail (resolution) at long distance, better color detail, a brighter view in low light, and better seeing into shadows even in daylight. This is probably why you like your large binos on the porch, although it may be less relevant to an older lady looking for something easy to carry.
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Old Wednesday 7th March 2018, 00:24   #38
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OK thanks for explaining that.
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Old Wednesday 7th March 2018, 01:06   #39
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I will recommend the Zeiss Victory SF 10x42, and I feel it will be ideal for the user.

The ergos are better than some others mentioned as these have great balance and handling, the focuser
is in the right place and very smooth.

The optics are at the top, so be sure to try this one before you settle on another choice.

Jerry
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Old Wednesday 7th March 2018, 01:37   #40
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Well she's been on a birding trip up in Puget Sound and will return tonight. I want to show her some of my new bins so I'll take this info over to her and then see what she wants to do about it. I've done my part and the rest is up to her. She likes to take her time making any decisions but I'll let you all know when she makes her move. Thanks for all the suggestions.
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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 08:51   #41
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If the lady really wants to go all out, I would press upon her the desirability, nay, the necessity of purchasing the Pfleusengasser 10.5x 38. They are expensive.....
StEF, do you have a link for these wunderbins?

A lazy Goggle search turns up only this thread !

I take it these are the latest model with 75° AFov ([email protected] / [email protected]), sharp to the edge, 20mm ER, 100% transmission Perger prisms of HT glass, with a CA free optical train achieved through a smorgasbord of Super FL, and HT glass, and Aspheric lenses all hand ground to 1/20th wave. It goes without saying that the Nanoblack internal tube coating gives other worldly levels of contrast. Of course such a gorgeous 97% overall transmission optical train fully deserves its home in the Magnesium Metal Matrix, Whisker Titanium Carbon Fibre Composite with protective Kevlar weave chassis which comes in at sub 18oz (《500grams).

I think my favourite part though is the perforated beige faux baby harp seal leather armouring ....

Really, what's not to love?



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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 13:58   #42
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I've owned both the 10X42 and 10X50 SV, tried at length the 10X42 FL and 10X42 HT, and also the 10X42 SE. Those models are all superb in a number of ways, but the binocular I like the most is the 10X42 SF, that's the one I kept, and the one I use. The 10X32 SV had a wonderful view, but for me had too small of an exit pupil, blackouts were unavoidable unless my eyes were PERFECTLY centered. That's me, they might work for you.


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I will recommend the Zeiss Victory SF 10x42, and I feel it will be ideal for the user.

The ergos are better than some others mentioned as these have great balance and handling, the focuser
is in the right place and very smooth.

The optics are at the top, so be sure to try this one before you settle on another choice.

Jerry
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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 14:57   #43
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Thanks for the input. I think she'll have to find a place to try these. I'm sure she'd be willing to drive to Portland if she has to. It's a long drive but likely worth it unless she's willing to purchase and return. I recommended Sport Optics to her for that as they seem to have a good return policy and have the right selection.
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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 15:09   #44
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BC,

IMHO, following Vespo, Lee, Jerry and Robert's Zeiss Victory SF 10X42 advice would be well headed!!

"Try before you Buy" is always best to check and compare the ergonomics out for comparative 10X models. Possibly, the Springfield Cabella's (shorter trip) may have the in-store optics selection for her to try for a best-fit-her-eyes opportunity!

FWIW, I've been to Sports Optics to -try before buying- glassing activity...very knowledgeable and helpful staff there!!

Ted
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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 16:12   #45
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I'm going way back to this because somehow it didn't get answered. Briefly, larger objectives provide a larger exit pupil, better detail (resolution) at long distance, better color detail, a brighter view in low light, and better seeing into shadows even in daylight. This is probably why you like your large binos on the porch, although it may be less relevant to an older lady looking for something easy to carry.
The bit about "a brighter in low light" is correct, but I'm sorry to say, I totally disagree with the parts about better detail, better colour detail, and seeing in the shadows. They are not deliverable by a bigger objective.

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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 16:36   #46
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Now see that's the impression I was under also and why I asked about it. I don't know who is correct??? Can anyone else clarify this?
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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 16:37   #47
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.........., but the binocular I like the most is the 10X42 SF, that's the one I kept, and the one I use. The .......
SuperDuty ...... Welcome back! I have been wondering how the Zeiss SF has been working out for you long term so it is great to hear you still have and like it.

In general terms, I agree with the members posting that the 10X42 Zeiss SF is first class It is the one that works best for me. However when it comes down to individual preferences and usage, that can change so hopefully your friend will be able to check out several. The SF is great model to use as a benchmark for comparison to others. What makes it a standout to me is the wider FOV, the rearward balance and good handling of CA and stray light. Off hand, I can not think of any $1,000 and up model that is a reject, it just comes down to personal preferences and what works best for that person.
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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 16:52   #48
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Now see that's the impression I was under also and why I asked about it. I don't know who is correct??? Can anyone else clarify this?
Happy for others to chime in but there is one principle you need to understand. It doesn't matter if you are using an 8x20, 8x32, 8x42, 8x50 8x58 and so on, on a bright when your pupil is stopped down, to 2mm, every single one will be an 8x16 as far as your retina is concerned. Consequently, providing there is no difference in coatings and optical quality or stray light, they would have the same brightness, same resolution and same colour rendition. If we are really very picky, the bigger binoclars will be slightly dimmer due to thicker glass.

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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 17:00   #49
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That's what I had heard from one of the regulars who said something to the effect that a good 32mm is fully adequate as a primary birding binocular due to the excellent coatings they use now.
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Old Thursday 8th March 2018, 19:07   #50
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That's what I had heard from one of the regulars who said something to the effect that a good 32mm is fully adequate as a primary birding binocular due to the excellent coatings they use now.
Don't forget that birding conditions as well as individual pupil size* can vary quite a lot.

Smaller bins with smaller exit pupils will also generally be more sensitive to glare. Front lens is less recessed in a small bin and the margin to the binocular exit pupil vs eye pupil will be smaller i.e. good baffling for stray light will be harder to do.

Coatings (hight transmission) are probably more of interest in low light where a large exit pupil also is useful. A 42 vs a 32 mm bin can deliver 72% more light whereas coatings might vary 5%-10% up to perhaps 10-20% in the blue spectrum.

What might be adequate for some might not work for others.

*Even aboive 60 years old a pupil of 7.5mm dilated is within standard deviation.

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