Desert Owls unguided? (1 Viewer)

opisska · Nov 3, 2018

I am not sure if it is the right etiquette, but considering all other Desert Owl-related topics are endowed with a warning of them being old, I took to making a new topic. Sorry if that's inappropriate.

Even though I have been trying to crack this question for more than two years, I am still actually not sure: can you see/hear Desert (formerly thought to be Hume's) Owl in Israel on your own or not? Ebird (expectedly) won't show any observations and most of what you can Google now is related to the species question or some scientific research at undisclosed locations.

Interestingly xeno-canto has some recordings with locations, but they are several years old and scarce - with the exception of many recordings of a nesting pair in the same area - see https://www.xeno-canto.org/326454 for example - however according to UN maps, this is IDF military area, so probably a permit is needed (which is impossible for a foreigner to get alone afaik).

Does anyone have any definitive information to this topic? We decided to do an 11-day trip over Christmas in Israel, essentially out of having nothing better to do yet wanting to do WP birding - considering the list of species we will be after isn't very long, we could in principle devote considerable time to looking for the owls, including long trekking if needed ... if only we could figure out where should we trek to!

jurek · Nov 3, 2018

It is completely possible to see Desert Owls on these locations on your own.

A local birdwatcher runs paid tours. According to reports, these tours are good, but there is no objective reason why one should buy paid tours.

opisska · Nov 3, 2018

jurek said:
It is completely possible to see Desert Owls on these locations on your own.

A local birdwatcher runs paid tours. According to reports, these tours are good, but there is no objective reason why one should buy paid tours.

But which locations, that is the question! The one I linked surely can't be just willy-nilly accessed, it's 10 km deep in IDF area.

opisska · Nov 4, 2018

To possibly help anyone looking further, I was able to collect a number of hints posted on public places to conclude that the best places are probably the four large wadis between Ein Gedi and Masada. It's still a relatively large amount of ground to cover, but it's basically doable.

Jos Stratford · Nov 4, 2018

Wouldn't consider Jordan? Cheap flights from Warsaw possible (eg from under 100 zł return trip in December, 250 zł in January/February - and these prices will drop) and the owl is certainly possible independently. Picture below is from an independent visit a few years back.

opisska · Nov 4, 2018

Jos Stratford said:
Wouldn't consider Jordan? Cheap flights from Warsaw possible (eg from under 100 zł return trip in December, 250 zł in January/February - and these prices will drop) and the owl is certainly possible independently. Picture below is from an independent visit a few years back.

Yeah, Jordan would have been possible, if we haven't already booked flights and car for Israel

Basically, the owls are an aftertought because only after we started researching what exactly to look for, we came across mentions that they are actually possible (I thought beforehand that they aren't withing normal reach for individuals).

Mixing the two countries has become complicated when Jordan stopped issuing visa on the ground border three years ago and in Israel is more interesting for a winter visit thanks to larger chance of being set up for a twitch, but if we fail the owls, we will at least have a reason to visit Jordan for the 3rd time

Jos Stratford · Nov 4, 2018

opisska said:
Yeah, Jordan would have been possible, if we haven't already booked flights and car for Israel

Yep, that's a good enough reason

temmie · Nov 4, 2018

Skip ebird. Totally unreliable for exact location data (ok, ok, this is less relevant here as this species is hidden but still). Go observation

https://observation.org/soort/view/...&os=0&hide_hidden=0&hide_hidden=1&show_zero=0

PYRTLE · Nov 4, 2018

Do you really want to be wandering around restricted areas in the dark, without permits and in a country highly charged with conscripted soldiers carrying weapons. Okay, you're booked on flights, have the car and info on sights for your target birds, so with the spirit of adventure and youth on your side, what have you got to lose?
Personally I would seek the services of a guide, just for the owl. They might also give you up to date information on other species too.

opisska · Nov 4, 2018

temmie said:
Skip ebird. Totally unreliable for exact location data (ok, ok, this is less relevant here as this species is hidden but still). Go observation
https://observation.org/soort/view/...&os=0&hide_hidden=0&hide_hidden=1&show_zero=0

Well the species is hidden on both ebird and observation, so it's kinda 0:0 here

As for observation.org in general: I hate that page with burning passion. I hate it because it obviously attracts a lot of people to submit data there instead of ebird, but instead of ebird's clean and useable interface, observation.org is a complete mess. I have honestly no idea how to find anything useful in there save for clicking a direct link from someone ...

PYRTLE said:
Do you really want to be wandering around restricted areas in the dark, without permits and in a country highly charged with conscripted soldiers carrying weapons. Okay, you're booked on flights, have the car and info on sights for your target birds, so with the spirit of adventure and youth on your side, what have you got to lose?
Personally I would seek the services of a guide, just for the owl. They might also give you up to date information on other species too.

The wadis in question do not appear to be a restricted area. The "hottest" spot for the owls is an IDF zone, yes, but that's why I have excluded it. In general, my experience in Israel has been good - once we walked from Km20 to Jordan border and got spotlighted by soldiers for a part of the way, but nobody even approached us with any kind of complaints. Getting a guide is just giving up on all the fun of discovery!

Jos Stratford · Nov 4, 2018

opisska said:
Well the species is hidden on both ebird and observation, so it's kinda 0:0 here

As for observation.org in general: I hate that page with burning passion. I hate it because it obviously attracts a lot of people to submit data there instead of ebird, but instead of ebird's clean and useable interface, observation.org is a complete mess. I have honestly no idea how to find anything useful in there save for clicking a direct link from someone ...

The wadis in question do not appear to be a restricted area. The "hottest" spot for the owls is an IDF zone, yes, but that's why I have excluded it. In general, my experience in Israel has been good - once we walked from Km20 to Jordan border and got spotlighted by soldiers for a part of the way, but nobody even approached us with any kind of complaints. Getting a guide is just giving up on all the fun of discovery!

Agree with both first paragraph and second paragraph, and especially the very final sentence.

James Lowther · Nov 4, 2018

Jos Stratford said:
Wouldn't consider Jordan? Cheap flights from Warsaw possible (eg from under 100 zł return trip in December, 250 zł in January/February - and these prices will drop) and the owl is certainly possible independently. Picture below is from an independent visit a few years back.

Didn’t you almost die getting that photo Jos? The ultimate Stratfordian adventure?!
Or am I misremembering?

This owl is also possible in south Oman, so with luck you could do the double of the desert Strix there

James

jurek · Nov 4, 2018

Jordan became difficult recently, because border guards don't let people with binoculars in. People got through by arguing and explaining they are birders, but it is by far not guaranteed.

opisska · Nov 4, 2018

jurek said:
Jordan became difficult recently, because border guards don't let people with binoculars in. People got through by arguing and explaining they are birders, but it is by far not guaranteed.

OMG that's terrible. Now I am glad I have already been there twice in more sensible times. The country has some superb birding!

Jos Stratford · Nov 4, 2018

jurek said:
Jordan became difficult recently, because border guards don't let people with binoculars in. People got through by arguing and explaining they are birders, but it is by far not guaranteed.

Telescopes are not let in, binoculars are.

Algeria is not letting binoculars in.

Jos Stratford · Nov 4, 2018

James Lowther said:
Didn’t you almost die getting that photo Jos? The ultimate Stratfordian adventure?!

Not on that trip

Did get exceptionally lucky with a nighttime Caracal at the same site though.

Edit: I did get detained by Jordanian security at the pools north of Aqaba for a while for not having a (supposedly no longer required) permit.

jurek · Nov 5, 2018

Regarding Jordan:
In 2016 I looked for Desert/Humes/whatever Owl in several places around Petra and Barra Forest, without luck.

The situation in 2016 was that binoculars were OK but scope caused problems, bizarrely on leaving the country. In 2017 and 2018 birders report that they have big problems in bringing bins, or that their tour agency informed them beforehand that binoculars are not allowed.

So goes a good birding destination...

temmie · Nov 5, 2018

apologies;
data are indeed hidden on observation, too: I am an admin so I can see those data points ( I didn't see they were hidden for the masses on my phone). One thing I don't know if you can see all information if you don't have an account (which is free).

The interface is much, much better on ebird but half of the time people are lumping location data in hotspots; the concept of hotspots is very easy to make lists of target species but for finding species in exact locations (and for doing research combining bird sightings with spatial info) this kind of lumping (decreasing the quality of) data is seriously retarded.

Location data on observation are exact (disclaimer: as long as observers enter them correctly!). This way, with some programming you can extract many useful exact coordinates, load them on your map app or GPS, and litterally walk from stake-out to stake-out.

opisska · Nov 5, 2018

Sorry for speaking badly about your server then

Anyway, I agree that the "hotspot" thing on ebird was not designed very well and it has already bitten me on some occasions.

Interestingly, this discussion made me try to click around more on observation.org and I finally found out how to list observations of "species X in country Y" - I search the species, then show observations and there is a filter for country - there is also the preset of "last two years" that needs to be changed if you want more, that took me a while to notice! It seems that the amount of data for Israel for some random interesting species is moreorless comparable to ebird, so it could be useful - but is there a way to plot it all on the map? Israel is quite small, but for large countries, making sense of the list is a hard work...

temmie · Nov 5, 2018

send me a personal message with your email, Jan, and I'll see if you are in the right wadi ;-)

(ps: not my server, nothing to say about data exchange, admins are just soldiers in the war ;-)

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