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Jos's Butterflies ...some for discussion

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Old Sunday 24th July 2005, 20:31   #1
Jos Stratford
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Jos's Butterflies ...some for discussion

Continuing my quest to photograph all the butterflies on my land, got these three beauties today - Swallowtail was excellent (seen them on the land before, but always zooming through), the Short-tailed Blue is rather common now (having replaced the earlier Mazarine and Amanda's Blues), but the Clouded Yellow was a first. Sneaked in close and got this shot ...but not certain I've got the i.d. okay, best I can do is Pale Clouded Yellow (?). Anybody like to confirm or put me right (with reasons if possible).
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Old Sunday 24th July 2005, 23:28   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford
Continuing my quest to photograph all the butterflies on my land, got these three beauties today - Swallowtail was excellent (seen them on the land before, but always zooming through), the Short-tailed Blue is rather common now (having replaced the earlier Mazarine and Amanda's Blues), but the Clouded Yellow was a first. Sneaked in close and got this shot ...but not certain I've got the i.d. okay, best I can do is Pale Clouded Yellow (?). Anybody like to confirm or put me right (with reasons if possible).
Confirmed as Colias hyale.

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Old Monday 25th July 2005, 03:20   #3
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Far right pic is a clouded sulpher as listed in the USA middle is a tiger swallowtail.
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Old Monday 25th July 2005, 13:18   #4
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Thanks for that Harri, did think it was that one, but nice to get a bit of confirmation.

Samuel, I guess 'Tiger' Swallowtail is one of the American races of this swallowtail, as this term is not (as far as I know) used this side of the pond. Same goes for the 'clouded sulphur' - checking guides, I think we're talking different species in the US and Europe.
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Old Tuesday 26th July 2005, 00:44   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford
Samuel, I guess 'Tiger' Swallowtail is one of the American races of this swallowtail, as this term is not (as far as I know) used this side of the pond. Same goes for the 'clouded sulphur' - checking guides, I think we're talking different species in the US and Europe.

Yes, to clear any confusion, Jos's Lithuanian swallowtail is the widespread European species Papilio machaon. (Sadly very rare here in the UK and I am jealous of Jos's photograph.)
In North America it is called the 'Old World Swallowtail', and is confined, I understand, to Canada and Alaska, though there are very similar species further south.

The Tiger Swallowtails have conspicuous black "tiger" stripes on the wings and they are in a section of the genus that some authorities put in the separate genus Pterourus. The most widespread is Papilio glaucus, which was a frequent and magnificent sight when I was in New York state last summer. They do not occur in Europe, though the Scarce Swallowtail, Iphiclides podalirius, is superficially similar.

Also agreed that the American 'Clouded Sulphur', aka 'Common Sulphur', Colias philodice, is not the same as Jos's C. hyale, it's more like our European C. croceas in fact. (I believe I saw one and it looked exactly the same to me!).
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Old Thursday 28th July 2005, 12:28   #6
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Another bunch

Plenty of butterflies photographed and logged now, but still one or two causing a bit of uncertainty.

A flush of fritillaries took to the wing this week, along with another hatching of Map Butterflies. It seems to me that the most common is Silver-washed Fritillary, but also got a shot of a different one - I think it is Pallas's Fritillary. Base this on rounder wings, darker margins to wings and lack of heavier black along the veins. Am I talking rubbish?!

The four pictures show the possible Pallas's Fritillary (picture 4), along with what I took to be Silver-washed in the other pictures
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Old Thursday 28th July 2005, 13:00   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford
Plenty of butterflies photographed and logged now, but still one or two causing a bit of uncertainty.

A flush of fritillaries took to the wing this week, along with another hatching of map Butterflies. It seems to me that the most common is Silver-washed Fritillary, but also got a shot of a different one - I think it is Pallas's Fritillary. Base this on rounder wings, darker margins to wings and lack of heavier black along the veins. Am I talking rubbish?!

The four pictures show the possible Pallas's Fritillary (picture 4), along with what I took to be Silver-washed in the other pictures
1-3 are Argynnis paphia, 4 is probably A. aglaja. I believe you will see A. laodice after a week or so.
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Old Thursday 28th July 2005, 13:18   #8
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Hi Harri,

Thanks for the confirmation on the Silver-washed, I thought I was doing okay there.

As regards Pallas's (A.laodice) and Dark Green (A.aglaja), what is it that takes you to the aglaja? Is it because the sub-margin spots are like 'arrows' or 'triangles' rather than more rounded spots?

Unfortunately I didn't get a clear look at the underwing, let alone a photo, but it didn't appear to have the white spots of aglaja, but as I said I didn't see it very well.

So, laodice perhaps after a week or so, I hope so. Once again thanks for your help.
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Old Thursday 28th July 2005, 14:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford
As regards Pallas's (A.laodice) and Dark Green (A.aglaja), what is it that takes you to the aglaja? Is it because the sub-margin spots are like 'arrows' or 'triangles' rather than more rounded spots?
Yes, that's one of the distinctive marks, see pictures of A. laodice: http://www2.nrm.se/en/svenska_fjaril...s_laodice.html.

A. aglaja usually has scent mark also on the anal vein of forewing, A. adippe has not (your specimen has).

In addition, A. laodice seems more yellow that the other fritillaries in flight. It is fairly common in the surroundings of our summer cottage in southern Estonia.
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Old Thursday 28th July 2005, 14:43   #10
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Once again thanks, your link leads onto another rather useful website, providing photographs of each species

www.leps.it/index.htm
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Old Thursday 4th August 2005, 09:44   #11
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Fritillaries!

Each week brings new species to my land, managing to get good photos and i.d. on most, but still some require confirmation. New fritillaries yesterday and they were not hanging around, so only got brief shots.

I think I have here High Brown Fritillary and, possibly, Niobe Fritillary (initially thought I was dealing with one species!)

The first butterfly I only managed to get a shot of the upperwing and didn't see the underwing before it disappeared (no big thanks to my dog who decided to take a look too!). Largely basing this i.d. on the 'club-shaped' dark marking at the front of the wing and because the androconia are prominent on veins 2 and 3 (apparantly not so on Niobe).

The second butterfly was not far away and presuming it to be the same species, tried to photograph the underwing - got several shots as below, but checking the guides, it seems the wing pattern is Niobe. However, it does also have the dark club-shaped marking, hence I'm not sure with the identity on this one!

Will be back up there on Saturday, so hopefully will see more of them to check better.
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Old Thursday 4th August 2005, 13:27   #12
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Hi Jos,

Is it possible that either of these might be Dark Green Fritillaries?
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Old Friday 5th August 2005, 04:59   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse
Hi Jos,

Is it possible that either of these might be Dark Green Fritillaries?
Possible, but why? Shot one shows the prominent androconia on veins 2 and 3, which seems to be a feature more of High Brown tha Dark Green. Take a look at the pictures on www.leps.it for example. Also underwing of photo two does not seem to match. Of course these are new species for me, so can be wrong!
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Old Friday 5th August 2005, 07:00   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford
Possible, but why? Shot one shows the prominent androconia on veins 2 and 3, which seems to be a feature more of High Brown tha Dark Green. Take a look at the pictures on www.leps.it for example. Also underwing of photo two does not seem to match. Of course these are new species for me, so can be wrong!
Yes, both are A. adippe.
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Old Friday 5th August 2005, 08:44   #15
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Both shots show the slightly concave outer edge of the forewing which is (apparently) consisent with High Brown
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Old Friday 5th August 2005, 20:18   #16
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Thanks all, High Browns they are :)
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Old Monday 8th August 2005, 14:22   #17
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Blues!

Thanks for all the help so far, this week saw a few more High Brown Fritillaries, a female Large Copper and a selection of blues.

The blues have been an interesting group, with different species occurring across the season - started with Mazarine and Amanda's, then replaced by Short-tailed, then recently Common becamme the dominant species.

This weekend there was 'another' kind of blue - I have attached five shots of the blues on my land this week. The one that is causing me problems is the one with very little white on the wing margins. As well as the lack of white, it is also slightly smaller than the other pictured butterfly. Other than the lack of white and smaller size, it looks very like Common Blue (but has some black veins through the wings) and I considered it to be a form of Common Blue perhaps, but have to admit this one is confusing me, as both butterflies were common and I would be surprised to have two forms of one butterfly present at the same time.

Pictures 1-3 are what I am considering to be Common Blue.
Pictures 4-5 are confusing me!
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Old Monday 8th August 2005, 14:58   #18
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I wonder if 4 and 5 are Common Blues that have lost the white edge to the wing. I think sometimes this gets worn off as the butterfly gets older.
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Old Tuesday 9th August 2005, 12:22   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse
I wonder if 4 and 5 are Common Blues that have lost the white edge to the wing. I think sometimes this gets worn off as the butterfly gets older.
Agreed.
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Old Tuesday 9th August 2005, 12:34   #20
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I did consider that as a possibility, but wasn't sure about this for two reasons - it is a very recent emergence of Common Blues and all butterflies seem very fresh, with and without the white. Additionally, there are quite a number flitting about without the white and none showed wear (other than the missing white). Has to be said though, the underwing matches only Common Blue and hence I am inclined to agree. Again mant thanks.
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Old Wednesday 24th August 2005, 20:48   #21
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I thought the season was coming to an end - the last couple of weeks have seen a general decline in numbers of species and individuals - but today was just excellent! Many new butterflies on the wing, dozens on the commoner Small Tortoiseshells, Peacocks and Brimstones, a scattering of Red Admirals and then came across a meadow of fritillaries. Top of the bunch were several real nice Queen of Spain Fritillaries, also a lot of Small Pearl-bordered Fritillaries. Then came across one more - have to say it's another that puzzling me, narrowed it to a couple of species, then considering it might be a worn individual of another. Was not a large fritillary and very 'dingy', but what seems distinctive is this brown spot on the forewing almost totally circled by orange. So, what is it?

Pictures 1 & 2 Queen of Spain Fritillary
Pictures 3 & 4 Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary
Picture 5 ???
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Old Wednesday 24th August 2005, 21:17   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford
I thought the season was coming to an end - the last couple of weeks have seen a general decline in numbers of species and individuals - but today was just excellent! Many new butterflies on the wing, dozens on the commoner Small Tortoiseshells, Peacocks and Brimstones, a scattering of Red Admirals and then came across a meadow of fritillaries. Top of the bunch were several real nice Queen of Spain Fritillaries, also a lot of Small Pearl-bordered Fritillaries. Then came across one more - have to say it's another that puzzling me, narrowed it to a couple of species, then considering it might be a worn individual of another. Was not a large fritillary and very 'dingy', but what seems distinctive is this brown spot on the forewing almost totally circled by orange. So, what is it?

Pictures 1 & 2 Queen of Spain Fritillary
Pictures 3 & 4 Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary
Picture 5 ???
Try Clossiana frigga (Friggas Fritillary) for 5, it shows all the correct features,unfortunately my distribution map for this species dosen't cover your area. Also Lesser marbled f.(Brenthnis ino) looks worth a look.

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Old Wednesday 24th August 2005, 21:31   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mothman
Try Clossiana frigga (Friggas Fritillary) for 5, it shows all the correct features,unfortunately my distribution map for this species dosen't cover your area.
Thanks, this was number one on my 'possibles' list - but until now it only occurs at one site in Lithuania ...about 60 km from where this one was! Mind you, observer coverage is next to zero in this country and I've found quite a few new birds for the country, so it is not beyond possibility that it is, in fact, more widespread.
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Last edited by Jos Stratford : Wednesday 24th August 2005 at 21:37. Reason: Butterflies don't go via Vilnius, knocking 40 km off the 100 km!!!
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Old Wednesday 24th August 2005, 23:22   #24
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Well, it's a bit worn but frigga looks the most likely suspect. Presumably, you didn't get an underwing shot...
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Old Thursday 25th August 2005, 06:33   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford
Thanks, this was number one on my 'possibles' list - but until now it only occurs at one site in Lithuania ...about 60 km from where this one was! Mind you, observer coverage is next to zero in this country and I've found quite a few new birds for the country, so it is not beyond possibility that it is, in fact, more widespread.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it is a dark form of Boloria selene. I have also found a similar form from Estonia. B. frigga flies on marshes or bogs in June and July and it is a northern species, very rare in Lithuania.
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