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BOP Lancashire 23/08/2007

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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 11:54   #1
Sleeper
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BOP Lancashire 23/08/2007

I took this photo of a BOP almost half a mile away and what is troubling me is the fact that although the tail really is kite it showed no red on upper tail and no fork was displayed the whole of the 3-5mins I watched it through the scope.

Any ID tips are most welcome. Initially I felt young feemale Marsh Harrier but the consensous that have viewed image say Red Kite.

Any futher coments would be welcome particularly how best to come to the correct ID.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 11:57   #2
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Kite for me.

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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 13:39   #3
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How have you ruled out Black Kite?
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 14:06   #4
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Head, tail and general colouring look right for a Black Kite - a shame the primaries aren't spread. From the angle you've taken the photo I'd expect the tail to be a bit more concave on a red rather than the square-ish end this one shows. Where abouts did you see it Stephen?
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 14:07   #5
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Hi Rob

Thanks for reply. I have not as such ruled anything out, more people telling me what it is. I guess when initially I thought it a young Marsh Harrier and somebody says no it's a Red Kite then it's hard to say anything else.

Like I say I would be interested in a little more insight into the ID comparisons of the bird as personally it did not say red Kite to me.

Any further help on this would be welcome.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 14:07   #6
Dougie Preston
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Don't know if you can rule out Black Kite from this pic. Although on the pic I'd say it's a Kite sp, and on the balance of probabilities based on the location, would be inclined to agree with Red Kite.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 14:29   #7
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Hi al
Just outside Rochdale was the sighting.

The thing still in my mind was massive cream on head hit me straight away. Then the tail had no red or any signs of a fork...non!

I watched for 3-5mins.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 14:36   #8
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juv black kite seems a possiblity.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 15:11   #9
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Is this the only photo?
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 15:27   #10
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sounds like a Marsh Harrier

looks like an imm Marsh too
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 15:46   #11
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Hi Bitterntwisted

Yes the only photo sorry.

Hi Tim
Could you elaborate why you think this could be as you say a Marsh please?
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 16:01   #12
Dougie Preston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
Hi al
Just outside Rochdale was the sighting.

The thing still in my mind was massive cream on head hit me straight away. Then the tail had no red or any signs of a fork...non!

I watched for 3-5mins.

Now I still think the photo would point to a Kite, though you now mention a cream head which points more to a Marsh Harrier!

Are you sure the pic is of the same bird with the cream head?
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 16:03   #13
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OK, with the single photo caveat, it looks like a Marsh Harrier to me, too. The structure seems fine and playing with the brightness brings out a contrast pattern to the underside which fits. Plus your description sounds good.

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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 16:03   #14
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Hi Dougie

Yes I am sure. It smacked me straight away when I got my scope on it. It was the dominant feature initially.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 16:07   #15
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Stephen if in doubt trust your gut instinct. Being able to watch it for 3-5mins through a scope is far more valuable than a single photo. If it's most distinctive feature was a cream head Marsh Harrier it is. I'm sure after 3-5 minutes although a Kite will clearly show a paler head if you can't make out the colour or tail its most distinctive feature will be a characteristic flight pattern. Perhaps if you could elaborate on the birds behaviour it'd help.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 16:27   #16
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It may indeed be a marsh harrier, but juv Black Kites can have very pale heads too. In Bulgaria recently myself and my guide thought a perched bird was a Marsh Harrier due to its very pale crown, but then it took to flight and was clearly a Black Kite.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 17:27   #17
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Red Kites can also have very pale heads, and I still can't see a Marsh in that photo, the tail is too square!
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 17:40   #18
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marsh harrier for me
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 17:54   #19
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A straightforward Marsh Harrier for me to. I don't see anything kite-like in the way this bird holds its wings.
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Old Saturday 25th August 2007, 20:04   #20
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only see a marsh harrier in this.
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Old Sunday 26th August 2007, 00:27   #21
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http://www.lincsbirdclub.co.uk/rare_..._harrier_3.htm

This image has now got me over the tail issue as the Male bird in the first photo shows.

Thanks for all your opinions I am happy to have my personal records showing Marsh Harrier.

Strange as I note that birdguides also had 2 either Female or Juv Marsh H in Lancashire noticed. A further one on the 24th at Pennington Flash and a further six on the 25th again in Lancashire 5 of which were given as Juveniles and the 6th was given no name or sex.

Coincidental I realise but it does show they were about.

Thanks again to all.
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Old Sunday 26th August 2007, 16:05   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
http://www.lincsbirdclub.co.uk/rare_..._harrier_3.htm

This image has now got me over the tail issue as the Male bird in the first photo shows.

Thanks for all your opinions I am happy to have my personal records showing Marsh Harrier.

Strange as I note that birdguides also had 2 either Female or Juv Marsh H in Lancashire noticed. A further one on the 24th at Pennington Flash and a further six on the 25th again in Lancashire 5 of which were given as Juveniles and the 6th was given no name or sex.

Coincidental I realise but it does show they were about.

Thanks again to all.
And by another coincidence a Black Kite in Staffordshire this afternoon.
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Old Monday 27th August 2007, 16:33   #23
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Looks like a Marsh Harrier.

And it's in Rochdale...

:)
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Old Monday 27th August 2007, 16:54   #24
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It gets more muddy as it goes along if anybody is following this it may be of interest to note where this all came from initially.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spa...picID=13191085

The real surprise is the comments regarding differing opinion on using photoshop.
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Old Monday 27th August 2007, 18:40   #25
mike from ebbw
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I am another for Harrier.In both black and red Kite a fully spread tail(which this bird clearly has) would be much wider at the end than it is in the photo.
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