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2012 UK Orchid season updates (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter heakl
- Start date
rmielcarek
Well-known member
Now classed as D. praetermissa ssp schoenophila.
Be interesting to see photos of the hybrid xDactylodenia ettlingeriana (ie Southern Marsh x Marsh fragrant).
Rich M
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The rain was belting down and I was getting soaked so did not stop long. I shall deffo be having another visit later this week.
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Mapledurwell is a small site which has quite a lot of rare plants other than Orchids, many of which are difficult to find. It is worth a note of caution to potential visitors that it is a sensitive location not lent to large numbers of visitors.
Mike - nice report on your Ghosting trip. I'm going down there tomorrow myself. You mention Yellow birds-nest at a second site - do you mean the "main" Oxon Ghost site, near Satwell, or the 1998 one? The presence of Yellow bird'snest is a good indicator of suitable conditions for Ghosts, so I will check whichever site it is.
I recently learned the location of the 1920's Lambridge Wood Ghost records, so will be checking that site too. Although the underground parts were removed by collectors, that part of the wood remains untouched since the 1920's, and the site details widely given are not the correct location, so it is unlikely to have been checked thoroughly. Records there were from the end of May to the middle of July, so tomorrow could be a good day.
There are a few places within the Marlow wood that hold leptochila - did you search into the wood, or just the classic roadside spots?
All the best
Sean
Mike - nice report on your Ghosting trip. I'm going down there tomorrow myself. You mention Yellow birds-nest at a second site - do you mean the "main" Oxon Ghost site, near Satwell, or the 1998 one? The presence of Yellow bird'snest is a good indicator of suitable conditions for Ghosts, so I will check whichever site it is.
I recently learned the location of the 1920's Lambridge Wood Ghost records, so will be checking that site too. Although the underground parts were removed by collectors, that part of the wood remains untouched since the 1920's, and the site details widely given are not the correct location, so it is unlikely to have been checked thoroughly. Records there were from the end of May to the middle of July, so tomorrow could be a good day.
There are a few places within the Marlow wood that hold leptochila - did you search into the wood, or just the classic roadside spots?
All the best
Sean
leptochila
Well-known member
Hi Sean
We only properly ventured into the area of woodland on the left (looking down the hill) and didn't pick out any Epipactis - I'm guessing the large area of wood on the other side of the road holds plants too? Time was of the essence.
Very worryingly I found a hole on the right-hand bank about half way down the hill approximately 5 metres from the road. It was perfectly vertical and about 5 inches across and 8 deep with barely any surrounding soil at its rim so it didn't look like animal activity. I sincerely hope it's nothing sinister. Have a look for it if you can. I didn't think to take pictures nor remember the exact location.
Yes, we found a couple of Yellow Bird's-nest at Satwell accompanied by a few clumps of Violet Helleborine not far from the top of the righthand slope towards the 1998 site (which again I didn't have time to check out so definitely go over that way). The path into and through Satwell is a mud slide so don the wellies!
Good luck with Lambridge - sounds like you've got all the British record locations now?
Mike.
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Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Hi Mike
There are no putative reords fro Satwell from 1998. That record is from a wood nearby. However, I guess you do mean there is YBN at Satwell. This is a good sign....
Most of the leptochila at Marlow on near the road, so it is a bad sign that you didn't see any. I will check the site tomorrow and report back.
Sean
There are no putative reords fro Satwell from 1998. That record is from a wood nearby. However, I guess you do mean there is YBN at Satwell. This is a good sign....
Most of the leptochila at Marlow on near the road, so it is a bad sign that you didn't see any. I will check the site tomorrow and report back.
Sean
leptochila
Well-known member
Yes I know, I was walking towards the 1998 wood but was still in the wood closest to Satwell. There's a photo of one of them at this wood in my photostream on my Flickr page (below).
Indeed, not even a Broad-leaved to be seen.
Mike.
James Hunter
Well-known member
I had no leptochila at Marlow on near the road last week - 1 broad-leaved only.
Kent today:
29 Green-flowered helleborines near Eynsford
300+ Broad-Leaved Helleborines near Sevenoaks
1000s pyramidals at Bluebell Hill
Cheers
James
ps all in glorious 'summer' weather!!!!!:-O
Kent today:
29 Green-flowered helleborines near Eynsford
300+ Broad-Leaved Helleborines near Sevenoaks
1000s pyramidals at Bluebell Hill
Cheers
James
ps all in glorious 'summer' weather!!!!!:-O
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Hi everyone
Just got back from a day in the Chilterns.
At Marlow Common, only two Violet helleborines, both are old plants with multi stems. "old faithful", a record-breaking plant, has 36 stems this year, one of which has already broken off. Prety reasonable. This plant is at least 35 years old, and one year recently had 52 flowering stems.
Three hours spent at Marlow, checked all previous locations/areas quite thoroughly but no Ghosts. Just a single, blind Broad-leaved hellebroine, no Narrow-lipped in any of the places I've recorded them before. Also no sign of any Bird's-nest orchids in any previous spots. Counted 111 Yellow Bird's-nest, an above-average number for recent years. 10% of these had been predated.
The woods didn't feel wet enough for Ghost, despite the recent rain and the surface dampness. The Beech litter is highly compacted in many spots and a lot of soil is exposed. For me, this does not bode well for this year.
Next, went to Lambridge Wood, where due to an unusual (for me) lack of preparation, I didn't have the correct spot to hand, so checked likely areas a short way from there, still within unaltered ancient Beechwood. No Ghosts, though this area looked better than any spot within the Marlow wood. At another place nearby, checked for Green-flowered helleborine. Six plants, where there can be up to 30. All were in very tight bud and not even with the stems fully vertical. No Yellow Bird's nest either, where there have been up to 100 in recent years. This part of the wood was very dry and compacted, like Marlow.
On a roadside bank near West Wycombe, a magnificent wildflower spectacle, including many hundreds of Pyramidal Orchids - some completely over, most in perfect condition.
Called in at a recent site for colourless Violet helleborine, where there have been two plants in recent years. Nothing - apart from a single, half-eaten normal one nearby. The main colourless plant's wire cage was intact, but within it was bare soil - it may have been dug up!
Lastly looked for the Princes Risborough helleborines, calling in to look for more Violets on the way. Quite a few plants, mostly eaten or bitten off by Muntjac presumably. However, one very nice variegated plant. I wonder whether the salting of the roads in winter bleaches the leaves partially.
At Princes Risborough, 29 plants of the "Narrow-lipped" types - which are still to be identified fully - are due to flower, but all but one are in tight bud. A final plant had a single open flower at the bottom. These are at least a week, maybe even two, late this year. Good numbers of Violet helleborines in the vicinity too. A couple of very tall Broad leaved helleborines here - the first time I've seen these.
In summary, no Ghosts, and from what I've seen today unlikely at those two sites, very few Broad leaved and Narrow-lipped helleborines, but Violets seem to be having an average year.
Cheers
Sean
Just got back from a day in the Chilterns.
At Marlow Common, only two Violet helleborines, both are old plants with multi stems. "old faithful", a record-breaking plant, has 36 stems this year, one of which has already broken off. Prety reasonable. This plant is at least 35 years old, and one year recently had 52 flowering stems.
Three hours spent at Marlow, checked all previous locations/areas quite thoroughly but no Ghosts. Just a single, blind Broad-leaved hellebroine, no Narrow-lipped in any of the places I've recorded them before. Also no sign of any Bird's-nest orchids in any previous spots. Counted 111 Yellow Bird's-nest, an above-average number for recent years. 10% of these had been predated.
The woods didn't feel wet enough for Ghost, despite the recent rain and the surface dampness. The Beech litter is highly compacted in many spots and a lot of soil is exposed. For me, this does not bode well for this year.
Next, went to Lambridge Wood, where due to an unusual (for me) lack of preparation, I didn't have the correct spot to hand, so checked likely areas a short way from there, still within unaltered ancient Beechwood. No Ghosts, though this area looked better than any spot within the Marlow wood. At another place nearby, checked for Green-flowered helleborine. Six plants, where there can be up to 30. All were in very tight bud and not even with the stems fully vertical. No Yellow Bird's nest either, where there have been up to 100 in recent years. This part of the wood was very dry and compacted, like Marlow.
On a roadside bank near West Wycombe, a magnificent wildflower spectacle, including many hundreds of Pyramidal Orchids - some completely over, most in perfect condition.
Called in at a recent site for colourless Violet helleborine, where there have been two plants in recent years. Nothing - apart from a single, half-eaten normal one nearby. The main colourless plant's wire cage was intact, but within it was bare soil - it may have been dug up!
Lastly looked for the Princes Risborough helleborines, calling in to look for more Violets on the way. Quite a few plants, mostly eaten or bitten off by Muntjac presumably. However, one very nice variegated plant. I wonder whether the salting of the roads in winter bleaches the leaves partially.
At Princes Risborough, 29 plants of the "Narrow-lipped" types - which are still to be identified fully - are due to flower, but all but one are in tight bud. A final plant had a single open flower at the bottom. These are at least a week, maybe even two, late this year. Good numbers of Violet helleborines in the vicinity too. A couple of very tall Broad leaved helleborines here - the first time I've seen these.
In summary, no Ghosts, and from what I've seen today unlikely at those two sites, very few Broad leaved and Narrow-lipped helleborines, but Violets seem to be having an average year.
Cheers
Sean
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lewis20126
Well-known member
15 Bog Orchids at a site in the NF today were in just about perfect condition even if one or two were almost underwater!
cheers, alan
cheers, alan
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Here's a question - how come rivers overflow when it rains but canals don't?
Sean
Sean
lewis20126
Well-known member
because they spill to rivers? and also they are multi-catchment - so basically a very big narrow pond?
cheers, alan
leptochila
Well-known member
Do you think leptochila flowering success might be a good indicator of ghost floweing success? Both being so light intolerant, maybe there's a good correlation there?
Mike.
leptochila
Well-known member
It's that time of year to go trudging around bogs with my eyes 3 inches from the ground, but today it didn't disappoint - around 30 Bog orchids at a site in Mid-Wales where sometimes they can have an off year. Some quite robust plants aswell but (oddly) flowering earlier than usual.
Judging by what people are reporting from the New Forest, potentially an all round good year for the species?
Mike.
PS. I'm under strict instruction not give out the exact location of this colony based on what happened to a group of plants close by a few years ago, (some of you may have heard about this) so I apologise in advance!
Judging by what people are reporting from the New Forest, potentially an all round good year for the species?
Mike.
PS. I'm under strict instruction not give out the exact location of this colony based on what happened to a group of plants close by a few years ago, (some of you may have heard about this) so I apologise in advance!
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I don't really know why this is on the orchid thread but sometimes they do Sean, I've seen people on the towpath of the Severn & Thames canal with water up to their knees. My wife and I refused a piggyback through the deepest part and retreated.
Alan
Judging by what other people have said, and what I have observed, there seems to be an increase in orchids being dug up this year?
leptochila
Well-known member
Hi Alan
I saw very similar plants from both Cors Goch and Bodeilio last year. The only species they can be are Narrow-leaved Marsh orchid as I'm sure you're aware both sites are famed for. However, most the plants don't really fit the description for traunsteinerioides with many (as yours) showing virtually no lip-markings at all, unusual lilac shades and atypical lip dimensions. The range of colour alone is enough to question this taxon, particularly at Cors Bodeilio. I think it's possible there is quite a lot of introgression with Heath Spotted, Northern Marsh and Early-marsh at both sites although the former 2 aren't in great evidence. It's quite probable these populations will be reassigned to something other than traunsteinerioides, like the southern populations already have.
(The first 3 from left were taken at Cors Goch and other 2 from Cors Bodeilio).
Mike.
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rmielcarek
Well-known member
Mike
surely the thick, heavily reflexed leaves in your middle photo suggest an Early Marsh influence?
The Bateman and Denholm systematics paper in the latest issue of New Journal of Botany states that populations of D. traunsteinerioides from Ireland, North Wales, northest England and western Scotland 'show remarkable consistency in all molecular datasets'. it does go on to mention that 'plastid haplotypes suggest modest introgression with other dactylorchids in the Anglesey populations but the only substantial genetic deviation detected affected a population in western Ireland. I'm no expert (I'm not even sure what half that means) but it suggests to me that they are happy with the Anglesey populations.
Flowering times seem to differ between sites in Anglesey; when we were up there on May 25th we found Pugsleys in flower at a site but nothing else while at Cors Bordeilio there was nothing in flower. We didn't visit Cors Goch.
Rich M
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