2013 UK orchids (1 Viewer)

[Matt Eade]

Warburg Orchid

Last Monday, I saw what I thought may have been a NLH, but am now wondering if it was the BLH x VH hybrid seen yesterday.

I've attached some pics, it was in a cage amongst the cages among the superb Beech Trees.

Cheers, Matt

 

[leptochila]

A few pics (I'd already shared with Sean, hence his comment).

Certainly a very unusual plant. Looks good for a possible hybrid. Keen to visit now.

Mike

 

[leptochila]

Last Monday, I saw what I thought may have been a NLH, but am now wondering if it was the BLH x VH hybrid seen yesterday.

I've attached some pics, it was in a cage amongst the cages among the superb Beech Trees.

Cheers, Matt

Definitely NL Helleborine. Good looking plant aswell!

Mike

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Sean

What basis are you using for the Warburg plant being x schulzei?

Just looked up my notes and I've had problems with trying to identify this hybrid before so I'm interested in your thinking,

To me the flowers look quite Violet like, albeit a rather lax inflorescence, but those very dark bosses on the lip are quite unusual I must say.

The leaf doesn't look that broad and rounded - did anyone notice how the leaves felt, eg stiff, ribbed, downy or hairless?

Rich M

James sent me additional photos Rich.

Purple-shot flowers, green stem and leaves, but purpurea-like otherwise.

Sometimes you get a feeling that it doesn't look right for one or the other.

Sean

 

[JCL]

James sent me additional photos Rich.

Purple-shot flowers, green stem and leaves, but purpurea-like otherwise.

Sometimes you get a feeling that it doesn't look right for one or the other.

Sean

Now posting the rest of the images so everyone has the same evidence. I did no leaf-fondling, I'm afraid. It was all rather tricky with toddlers running around.

Matt E: gripped by your NLH. Everything we saw was well over, so assuming we saw your plant (which sounds like it was in the main area of cages), it must have gone over rapidly.

Mike W: I'll email you directions.

James

 

[Dylan Edwards]

Violet Helleborines at Severn Valley

Wonderful to catch up with this beautiful plant today ( cheers to Muba for the on-site directions ) ...Found in all 11 plants with several open but still some to come ......As you had 50 plants i only managed to find a small colony and then another small group of 8 ....My eyes-must-be-painted-on !!

 

[heakl]

Hi Alan

The sheer number of plants at Alyn means visitors often come back with different interpretations based on the selection of plants they see, what condition they are in etc.

I have to admit to being wrong in so quickly dismissing the plant in previous posts so readily as a hybrid. One of the reasons for my theory was the pinkish wash on the upper surface of the sepals.

Clearly my memory of this feature was clouded, as Harrap demonstrates.

That said, my experience of AWCP is somewhat different to yours, with a number of anomalous plants - and that was only the ones I picked out of the masses. When I visit there I wish I could look at every plant so closely.

The other issue is that things definitely change year on year: in 2011 plants that looked like dunensis consistently showed full allogamy, whereas this year there was almost no evidence of that. That year also, the GFH and BLH were much more obvious and discreet in their morphology. This year I struggled, in the section I explored, to find a single plant that showed all - or even most - of the features of BLH.

Weird that our experiences on one of the more obvious species differ so much.

Hope I'm right about that bloody Warburg plant now!!!

Sean

Hello Sean,
Your first paragraph perhaps answer's the essence of your penultimate paragraph. I should also have mentioned that some of the GFH on the Sefton coast were also very similar to the AWCP plants, complete with the purple wash on the sepals.

As for your last paragraph, perhaps my attached photo will give a word of warning. It was taken on the Cotswolds last year in a substantial colony of BLH and many many miles from the nearest purpurata. Apart from the unusual fashion in which the flowers opened it was distinctly BLH and I'm sure that must be what it was. I checked the site today and unfortunately it has not reappeared this year.

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Hello Sean,
Your first paragraph perhaps answer's the essence of your penultimate paragraph. I should also have mentioned that some of the GFH on the Sefton coast were also very similar to the AWCP plants, complete with the purple wash on the sepals.

As for your last paragraph, perhaps my attached photo will give a word of warning. It was taken on the Cotswolds last year in a substantial colony of BLH and many many miles from the nearest purpurata. Apart from the unusual fashion in which the flowers opened it was distinctly BLH and I'm sure that must be what it was. I checked the site today and unfortunately it has not reappeared this year.

Crikey! Amazing pic, and thanks for posting it before my visit to Warburg, which I'll approach in a new light. I have to say I would have given your plant the H title without the background! But it can't be too far from purps?

Sean

 

[Barn E]

Possible Helleborine Hybrid.

Now posting the rest of the images so everyone has the same evidence. I did no leaf-fondling, I'm afraid. It was all rather tricky with toddlers running around.

Matt E: gripped by your NLH. Everything we saw was well over, so assuming we saw your plant (which sounds like it was in the main area of cages), it must have gone over rapidly.

Mike W: I'll email you directions.

James

I am new to this forum, but not new to orchids. Photo 5 looks just like E.helleborine to me. I can see no evidence that it might be a hybrid.

 

[LizandDave]

Violet Helleborines

Just one Violet Helleborine out at a known site near me.
Several plants have tops chewed off, maybe rabbits?
A few plants in full bud but flowers not yet open.

Virtually no colour in these but they are growing in deep shade.
Dave

 

[Ghostly Vision]

I am new to this forum, but not new to orchids. Photo 5 looks just like E.helleborine to me. I can see no evidence that it might be a hybrid.

With this, and Alan's picture in mind, I do see what you mean...

Will see what it looks like in the flesh.

 

[The Quiet Man]

A few m away what most present thought was a BLH x V hybrid with two stems in fine nick.


It was Peter Creed of "A guide to finding Orchids" fame who identified the Hybrid during the Helleborine guided walk at Warburg. That's good enough for me.

 

[rmielcarek]

It was Peter Creed of "A guide to finding Orchids" fame who identified the Hybrid during the Helleborine guided walk at Warburg. That's good enough for me.

It would help others, however, if we knew why it is a hybrid and not just an odd looking example of Broad-leaved or Violet, particularly as this hybrid seems so hard to identify conclusively.

It is not hard to find plants that don't fit into the normal descriptions, they are part of the fun. Identifying them is the hard part, the learning element.

I visited my local patch of Violets this morning (more now coming into flower Paul) and, as normal, I spent a fair amount of time fussing over this pair of plants. These have been discussed on here before, and the consensus was they are Violets - it's just that they look totally different from the other Violets at the site. I even fondled the leaves (liked that expression James) - they are soft, hairless, slightly ribbed and green.

Rich M

 

[rmielcarek]

green Violet Helleborine

At the other end of the colour scale I found this weedy specimen this morning, with green on the bosses and the inside of the hypochile.

Rich M

 

[leptochila]

It would help others, however, if we knew why it is a hybrid and not just an odd looking example of Broad-leaved or Violet, particularly as this hybrid seems so hard to identify conclusively.

It is not hard to find plants that don't fit into the normal descriptions, they are part of the fun. Identifying them is the hard part, the learning element.

I visited my local patch of Violets this morning (more now coming into flower Paul) and, as normal, I spent a fair amount of time fussing over this pair of plants. These have been discussed on here before, and the consensus was they are Violets - it's just that they look totally different from the other Violets at the site. I even fondled the leaves (liked that expression James) - they are soft, hairless, slightly ribbed and green.

Rich M

This is a purpurata?! I need to get back to the books if it is!

Mike

 

[rmielcarek]

This is a purpurata?! I need to get back to the books if it is!

Mike

What would you say it is Mike?

Rich

looking back to when it was first discussed, in the 2011 thread (see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=196796&page=14 ) it seems that initially I thought it was a Broad-leaved but was corrected by Sean and Mark

 

[muba]

Wonderful to catch up with this beautiful plant today ( cheers to Muba for the on-site directions ) ...Found in all 11 plants with several open but still some to come ......As you had 50 plants i only managed to find a small colony and then another small group of 8 ....My eyes-must-be-painted-on !!

It was 50 flower spikes, so at an average of 4 or 5 per plant I reckon we saw the same batch.

Steve

 

[Ghostly Vision]

What would you say it is Mike?

Rich

looking back to when it was first discussed, in the 2011 thread (see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=196796&page=14 ) it seems that initially I thought it was a Broad-leaved but was corrected by Sean and Mark

Rich

The flowers look extremely close to purpurata but the leaves scream helleborine. I'd say you have a rather ungainly hybrid there too.

Sean

 

[rmielcarek]

Rich

The flowers look extremely close to purpurata but the leaves scream helleborine. I'd say you have a rather ungainly hybrid there too.

Sean

Sean

You thought it was a hybrid in 2011 as well.

Rich

 

[leptochila]

What would you say it is Mike?

Rich

looking back to when it was first discussed, in the 2011 thread (see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=196796&page=14 ) it seems that initially I thought it was a Broad-leaved but was corrected by Sean and Mark

I would've happily just said Broad-leaved with the colourful floppy flowers and big leaves. What about this plant makes it purpurata do we think?

Mike