2015 UK Orchids (1 Viewer)

[IJS]

Compares with the same variety I posted last year. http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3027843&highlight=emarginata#post3027843

Mine's not quite as good as your find! That one does look 100%!
Cheers

Ian

 

[Simon1953]

Not that I am aware. The pure white version is a variety though.

Thanks Ian. Personally, having grown up and learnt my plants as a child in the 'pre-DNA' age, I've tended to be a 'lumper' rather than a 'splitter'!

Simon

 

[rmielcarek]

I went to Sweeney Fen today and was also impressed by the Marsh Fragrants; so many!
Talk of a Dactyl X Gymno hybrid had me looking closely and I found these two plants. Both look at first like Fragrants yet to flower but on closer inspection there was something just not right; as if the flower was never going to unfurl. Both had spotted leaves.

Neither have got the long spurs that Fragrants have, and which the intergeneric hybrid normally gets - be interesting to see if the flowers ever open, and what they reveal!

Rich

 

[muba]

Neither have got the long spurs that Fragrants have, and which the intergeneric hybrid normally gets - be interesting to see if the flowers ever open, and what they reveal!

Rich

The spotted leaves are what makes these worthy of notice I think; a feature not seen in Fragrants.

 

[dcapper]

Nlh

Would like to see Narrow Lipped this year,does anyone have any info of state and sites yet . In Surrey/Chilterns please pm
Roger

Checked out Narrow Lippeds in Surrey yesterday. Still a bit early. Should be good in week or two.

 

[muba]

Does anybody have good locations for orchids in the touristy bit of the Cotswolds (around those places with three hyphens in the name) for late July? I would expect only Helleborines, but flicking through books and this forum even shows quite a surprising lack of sites.

Any suggestions welcomed

Steve

 

[ionh]

Dactylodenia

Hi Rich (and others who contacted me about posting #575), sorry for the late response; off-line in Scotland last week, failing to locate a variety of orchids & other 'target species', though i did catch the fag end of a few flowering coralroot orchids in Ardersier, which was a bonus.

So what's Dactylodenia st-quintinii to be used for then Ian?

I thought x Dactylodenia heinzeliana was the hybrid with Heath Spotted.

I pass on Andy McVeigh's remarks (Andy is a BSBI recorder for Bucks): "My understanding is the name x Dactylodenia st-quintinii was used previously for all hybrids between Gymnadenia conopsea (and its sub-species) and Dactylorhiza fuchsii, whereas all former sub-species are now recognised at species level, hence the changes in nomenclature". So originally st-q dates back to the days before the fragrant spp. were split.

Stace ('New Flora'; i haven't checked the new 'Hybrid Flora') lists
x D. heinzeliana = G. conopsea x D. fuchsii
x D. st-quintinii = G. borealis x D. fuchsii
x D. evansii = G.borealis x D. maculata
with the salutory comment that "Precise parentage is difficult to determine without knowledge of the sp. or spp. of Dactylorhiza and Gymnadenia present nearby"!

 

[rmielcarek]

Hi Rich (and others who contacted me about posting #575), sorry for the late response; off-line in Scotland last week, failing to locate a variety of orchids & other 'target species', though i did catch the fag end of a few flowering coralroot orchids in Ardersier, which was a bonus.



I pass on Andy McVeigh's remarks (Andy is a BSBI recorder for Bucks): "My understanding is the name x Dactylodenia st-quintinii was used previously for all hybrids between Gymnadenia conopsea (and its sub-species) and Dactylorhiza fuchsii, whereas all former sub-species are now recognised at species level, hence the changes in nomenclature". So originally st-q dates back to the days before the fragrant spp. were split.

Stace ('New Flora'; i haven't checked the new 'Hybrid Flora') lists
x D. heinzeliana = G. conopsea x D. fuchsii
x D. st-quintinii = G. borealis x D. fuchsii
x D. evansii = G.borealis x D. maculata
with the salutory comment that "Precise parentage is difficult to determine without knowledge of the sp. or spp. of Dactylorhiza and Gymnadenia present nearby"!

Cheers Ian, most useful.

Rich

 

[johnstagg]

Green-flowered helleborines

Along a 200 yard stretch of road at Hurst Heath, Dorset, there were 7 green-flowered helleborines (vectensis?) just in bud and 2 with completely dead flowers. On close inspection, these 2 had not got much beyond the same stage of development as the others, and there was no obvious sign of damage to the plants. Rather puzzling. John.

 

[ladybee]

Violet Helleborine sites

This pictures were taken in a meadow on the English - Welsh border, where both Common and Heath Spotted Orchids grow. I confess to being dumb on the identication of HSO when it falls outside what is shown in books. These have me a bit puzzled.

Today I went to a (Peak) site where Heath Spotted, Common Spotted and Southern Marsh occur - very interesting but quite puzzling too . I don't think I'll ever sort Dacs properly.

Please can anyone tell me of a good Violet Helleborine site, the nearer to Manchester (relatively) the better. Thanks in anticipation.
Anne

 

[rmielcarek]

Cotswolds

We spent a few hours this afternoon up in the Cotswolds around Sheepscombe and Birdlip so I had an opportunity to check out a few sites.

Couldn't see any sign at the Red Helleborines site, having forgotten my binoculars didn't help, and plenty of Nettle-leaved Bellflowers in the enclosure for confusion. At the nearby common all the Common Spotted and Fragrants had gone over, just a few Pyramids.

At the viewpoint a good showing of Musks; most starting to brown but a few still in prime condition. The BLHs growing in the open there are still some way off flowering.

Finally checked the easy accessed NLH site just down the road; found 18 without much effort but most were either still in tight bud or had been chewed off. However 3 plants were in a slightly more open area and had fat buds, and two of them even had one fresh flower open. On one of these the lip hadn't flattened out - instructive to see how the flowers must be rolled up inside the bud. Also something I've never seen before, a NLH with a split stem!

Rich M

 

[fgrsimon]

Recent finds

Just 2 flowering CLT's at Holkham this evening. One in a dense patch of maybe 30 or so non-flowering plants, with one that looked to have been chomped. Also one odd one about 50 yds away, with drooping flower head. A good number of Marsh Helleborines very close and some Pyramidals.

Glos last weekend, Marsh Helleborines in good numbers at the one public site in the county, in the Wye Valley. Several hundred plants completely left to their own devices, including a few huge plants competing spectacularly with surrounding tall vegetation. I'm 6ft tall and one of them reached halfway up my thigh! Good numbers of Common Spotteds and possibly a couple of Heath Spotteds close by. GFH at Edge Common still in tight bud. Tiny colony of Musks on Selsley Common, still flowering with improved numbers from last year. A couple of white Pyramidals nearby but well past their best. NLH group of about 10 with some way to go and looking a bit frail this year.

 

[davidearlgray]

Hi all, been checking a few photos of Pyramidal Orchids I took a couple of years ago at a site in NE Leicestershire.
Please see attached and I'm just wondering if this is a Var.emarginata type?
It would probably be a first for the county!

Cheers,
Dave.

 

[rmielcarek]

This pictures were taken in a meadow on the English - Welsh border, where both Common and Heath Spotted Orchids grow. I confess to being dumb on the identication of HSO when it falls outside what is shown in books. These have me a bit puzzled.

I'd probably have the two on the left side (and probably the third as well) down as Heaths. As for the right hand plant, I've found plants like this myself and never come to a positive conclusion.

Rich

 

[rmielcarek]

Today I went to a (Peak) site where Heath Spotted, Common Spotted and Southern Marsh occur - very interesting but quite puzzling too . I don't think I'll ever sort Dacs properly.

Anne

In my part of the SW the Heath Spotted always flower about 3 or 4 weeks earlier than the Commons and about 3 weeks later than Southern Marsh. They flower in the order Southern Marsh, Heath, Common, but with some overlap between each.

Does this happen elsewhere?

Rich

 

[rmielcarek]

Hi all, been checking a few photos of Pyramidal Orchids I took a couple of years ago at a site in NE Leicestershire.
Please see attached and I'm just wondering if this is a Var.emarginata type?
It would probably be a first for the county!

Cheers,
Dave.

Good question!

Personally when searching for var emarginata I ignore plants where the lip still has three separate lobes.

Rich M

 

[muba]

Helleborines Updates

I went to three local sites today to see how three different Helleborines are doing.

Broad-leaved Hellborines have only a very few flowers out. This has not stopped a spider using one flower for its web and catching a number of small insects [pic 1].

The Dune Helleborines at Alyn Waters are only slightly more advanced and still need another week. The Green-flowered Helleborines here all seem to have had the flower spikes nibbled off by rabbits since I was last here four weeks ago.

The Green-flowered Helleborines nearby are having a good year. In 2014 I counted two in flower, while today it was 20. I blame slugs last year, after the wet spring. The flowers are deteriorating soon after opening.
Does anybody want to suggest which variety of phyllanthes these are? I oscillate between pendula and degenera [pic 2-5]?

 

[rmielcarek]

I went to three local sites today to see how three different Helleborines are doing.

Broad-leaved Hellborines have only a very few flowers out. This has not stopped a spider using one flower for its web and catching a number of small insects [pic 1].

The Dune Helleborines at Alyn Waters are only slightly more advanced and still need another week. The Green-flowered Helleborines here all seem to have had the flower spikes nibbled off by rabbits since I was last here four weeks ago.

The Green-flowered Helleborines nearby are having a good year. In 2014 I counted two in flower, while today it was 20. I blame slugs last year, after the wet spring. The flowers are deteriorating soon after opening.
Does anybody want to suggest which variety of phyllanthes these are? I oscillate between pendula and degenera [pic 2-5]?

I'd have 2 and 4 down as pendula, 3 as phyllanthes, and not sure about 5, is one of those buds starting to open?

Rich

 

[muba]

I'd have 2 and 4 down as pendula, 3 as phyllanthes, and not sure about 5, is one of those buds starting to open?

Rich

Yes buds are beginning to open. To me the cup and lip do not look properly differentiated
However these are all growing together in one small spot. Order of maturation is probaly 5 - 4 - 2 - 3

Steve

 

[Gareth Stamp]

Kenfig

5 green flowered helleborines located in the north dunes. All were in tight bud but should be in flower in approx. a week.